[zaroth]

What they really need to do is maybe just start completely over on the whole Xbox Dashboard. For something that could be so simple and easy, the whole experience of trying to use the Xbox for anything other than playing a game is insanely frustrating. Every time I sit down to try to use it I'm just tearing my hair out!

It's been, what, over a decade they've been working on that Dashboard and it has always been just a steaming pile of trash.

Everything from initial setup trying to make accounts for the kids, to setting up payment methods, trying to switch between users constantly as things are authorized in one place or another, trying to install apps, constantly turning it on to find its forcing an hour of updates that must be installed to basically unbrick it. The media player app is insultingly bad. The App Store is a wasteland. The UI is a total train wreck.

I went to install Amazon's app to stream some Prime shows last week. You would think probably some other people have tried to do this before, what could go wrong? What a mistake. App constantly crashing, took over an hour, including power cycling the Xbox twice before I get it to the point where I was actually watching a show. This for what is a < 5 minute process on a smartphone.

Every time I try to do anything with that infernal machine, I just end up tearing my hair out. I really don't understand how they have millions of users and so much basic shit Just Doesn't Work.

And don't get me started on the UI..... Everything I want to do buried the absolute maximum amount of clicks away from where I would expect to look for it.

I try not to complain about it usually because it just gets my blood boiling how could MS put out such absolute garbage? Please tell me I'm not alone in feeling this way :-)

The hardware rat race is great and all, but for a platform where they have Apple-esque control I would have expected two orders of magnitude better results than what MS has managed to deliver in 2017 for a living room experience.

[mikestew]

I really don't understand how they have millions of users and so much basic shit Just Doesn't Work.

Because those millions of users use the box to play games, like I do. Oh, I've tried all the other stuff, and as you point out it's generally such a steaming pile of shit that I feel foolish for having even tried. (If the Kinect weren't in a box in the garage, I'd be staring in its direction right now.) Frankly, I'd be happy if they could just bring the Xbone back to the level of usability that the 360 had. To their credit, they're getting there little by little in many ways. To their discredit, they shouldn't have to do that in the first place. MSFT had a working platform, but I'm guessing some PMs needed to make their mark, so they "improved" things by breaking them.

So I just play games on it, and watch the occasional Blu-Ray. That keeps the "aggravation footprint" to a minimum. Anything else I want to do is on the Apple TV. And when the next-gen consoles roll out, I'm going to be taking a hard look at what Sony has to offer.

[mustacheemperor]

>I'd be happy if they could just bring the Xbone back to the level of usability that the 360 had

My housemates and I purchased an Xbone and realized before long we were using the 360 more because it was vastly preferable for netflix/youtube/etc. Have since switched to a chromecast for that stuff, but the Xbone is absolutely a massive step back in UX. Not to mention the ads on the dashboard. There is advertising on the dashboard of my $250 console, that requires a paid subscription for online play. Why is that acceptable?

[jkaunisv1]

Because for some reason you keep paying the subscription, buying the games and playing them?

[mustacheemperor]

Ha, fair enough. I don't actually have a Live subscription. The Xbox One is strictly a couch-coop device for me, which made the last Halo release even more appalling.

[Yhippa]

> but I'm guessing some PMs needed to make their mark, so they "improved" things by breaking them

I loathe this so much and you know this is _exactly_ what happened. This is a problem at a lot of big companies. At the end of the year you don't get reviewed on "improving existing customer experience" you get more money based on how many features you put into production.

[Balgair]

See Excel, Google Maps, Chrome, etc. Really anything by Google starts out amazing, and then ends up as either total crap or relegated into a black hole. MSFT has gotten a lot better, relative to before, but is still terrible in absolute numbers. I know why this is, managers gotta manage, mortgages gotta get paid, etc. but the real question is why do companies get into these traps, even though it happens so damn often? The only thing I have is the Gervais Principle, but even that is too simple an explanation.

[ballenf]

MS's original reveal event focused a great deal on making the Xbone the hub of the entertainment center. It's why I bought it over the PS4. Only to suffer all the same frustrations as the parent to your comment.

If they had sold this as a gaming console that also does a few entertainment center things, then fine. But they didn't, at least not originally.

And the (almost) worthless Kinect acts as the IR blaster for control of other devices. And mine shuts down intermittently since one of the updates a year ago. That's the only thing I use it for since they changed all the voice commands to 'cortana' from 'xbox'.

And those 30 minute updates to unbrick the device. Inability to update all apps/games at once. Inability to have automatic updates without keeping the thing in "jack up your power bill" mode and "keep the fan in turbo mode".

And the useless review system. Who buys games without reading reviews? Not on the xbone. You get star ratings and that's it. So instead of being a hub, you still need your laptop (or phone) on hand.

I dare anyone who's never tried to setup a child account using only the xbox controller. I'm pretty sure MS has never done any usability testing on that. It's nigh unto impossible.

[mistermann]

> Frankly, I'd be happy if they could just bring the Xbone back to the level of usability that the 360 had.

I only own a 360 and was reading the parent comment in context of that and nodding my head vigorously, you mean the UI on the xbone is even worse?

Microsoft is such a schizophrenic company.

[mikestew]

I'll give you an example: party chat. Works just great on the 360, right? Send a friend and invite, they accept, you talk. It's been working for ten years, why change it? Well, change it they did. I forget the details, because it was at launch and they've since fixed it, but party chat just didn't work the way it used to, and I'd argue it worked in a broken manner.

But, yeah, the Xbone is worse. Primarily, IMO, worse because you are no longer the customer, AFAICT. I wouldn't be surprised if suddenly a "whack the monkey for a FREE month of XBL!" banner showed up on the dashboard. But there are some serious usability issues in there, too.

[mhermher]

Honestly don't have any of the same experience as you except that some things are buried behind too many clicks. I use the amazon stream all the time. I don't even remember installing it. Can't remember ever having a problem installing apps.

I have it set to always on, so I basically never even notice the updates since they happen while I sleep or am at work. So yeah, I don't share your experience at all.

[ballenf]

I tried that but it keep the fan running and draws 60+* watts of power constantly (mine is original, don't know if the newer models have lowered this). Mine is in an open entertainment center and I can hear the fan running from the next room.

But either way, why is it so important that I install the update just to use the Amazon Prime app? You can't do anything online until the 30 minute install finishes. I can see blocking online multiplayer games, but video streaming?

* Number may be off a bit, I measured it shortly after it was released. I putt a watt meter on it and left it on for a few days to see if it would ever go into a lower power mode. It didn't.

[notyourwork]

I agree and I regularly miss the blade dashboard from long ago. Every update keeps making it more and more difficult and intuitive.

When you don't have a mouse or a touch screen, putting things in non-linear places makes extremely difficult to navigate to. I find myself regularly going down and over and up and around. Almost circling things to select them.

Old gaming menus were horizontal or vertical but not both at the same time.

[khedoros1]

I've got an old 360 with the original blade interface; unfortunately, it's pretty unstable (high chance of red-ringing while playing anything). I pulled it out of storage a couple years ago to get the serial number when MS was offering a free memory card for older machines.

The interface felt so nice to go back to! Things were logically organized! Ads only showed up in the store tab (i.e. when you're looking for things to buy anyhow)! Going back to the current interface on my replacement 360 is what pushed me to start playing with blocking the ads using router rules.

[e40]

I once tried to use the XBox360 and it wanted me to verify the account before I could update, which took me into a hell that I wouldn't emerge from for 2+ hours. At the end, I was so upset at the BS I had to put up with (including >30 minutes on the phone with their support), I was ready to throw the machine out the window.

[Yhippa]

> Everything I want to do buried the absolute maximum amount of clicks away from where I would expect to look for it.

Part of the latest update had a video for the new Home button functionality. It used to be that pressing the Xbox button on your controller took you home. In the video they literally said "to go home press the Xbox button and then the "A" button twice".

I can't imagine recording a video telling people to do that. They got it wrong IMO. They should have just had the Xbox button take you home and a long press take you to the menu that you see presently when you press that button.

[etchalon]

The new functionality is closer to the original 360 functionality. I preferred it and welcome its reinstatement.

[brosky117]

100%.

The UI is insanely difficult to use. I frequently find myself wondering how to do the most basic tasks.

If it weren't for Halo, I'd be gone a long time ago.

[supernovae]

such as?

[ballenf]

Read reviews for games you're looking at buying? Star ratings is all I've found, but they sold this as an entertainment hub and touted how it's all integrated.

What's the point of all the flashy store interface if it's lacking what has become a critically important part of the buying process for most people?

[supernovae]

Hmm. There are mobile apps for iOS, Android and Windows that allow you to browse store. The store is also online via the web and the Xbox includes edge browser so you can search the web for game reviews..

The latest dashboard updates feature a few reviews, but lets be honest - hard problem to solve on console since providing feedback for apps is better done on a tablet/PC/laptop than with a controller.

[hfourm]

Totally agree. Although offering "simpler" functionality, the oldschool menu and UI system on the Xbox 360 was LIGHTYEARS ahead of anything the Xbox One has put out. Everything was fast and easy and as expected, from lobby systems, profile viewing, and party chat/party lobbies. I feel like the One was a major step back, UX wise, from the 360

[cududa]

Working on the 2010-2012 dashboard was one of my favorite parts of my career. Back then the dashboard/ system OS had a hard limit of 64 MB - and all the clever optimizations that go into that memory profile.

My favorite day was when our local builds started spitting an "Out of memory" error, and quite literally everyone on the shell+platform team was trying to debug what that meant - turns out it meant our builds were actually, finally utilizing over 64mb of memory.

Many nights were spent on converting PNG assets to vector drawings..

[hfourm]

Yea, many nights of mine were spent converting finger movements into headshots. So your work is appreciated.

It is just amazing to me that it was such a downgrade. Granted, the Xbox Ones menu system has improved over the years. But it still is sloppy feeling, laggy at times, and just overall non user friendly. Like you have some menus where you have to press different buttons for actions (like inviting people to a game) and otheres where you select the option with 'A'.

I may be a bit jaded because it was so awful at launch, but I still feel like it never got close to as clean and usable as the 360.

I will stop ranting now.

[bherms]

100% agree... If they could steal a top UX designer from, say, Apple and start over from scratch, I feel like they could build something amazing. I love the XBOX and have been a supporter since day 1, but the new dashboard interface keeps getting worse and worse.

[vgchh]

IMO the media center wars are being won by the actual TVs. We bought a new Samsung TV (SmartTV) over the Thanksgiving. It provides the usual built-in apps (Netflix, Amazon, Hulu etc.). Media Center experience is much better on this TV compared to other devices: No input switching, native 4K, fast switching between apps, simpler remote experience - no switching activities on a universal remote and turning devices ON/OFF.

At this point Apple TV is essentially obsolete for us. We do use XBox for gaming.

IMO XBox is better off just getting rid of the whole media center thing and focus tightly on the gaming experience.

[microtonal]

Media Center experience is much better on this TV compared to other devices: No input switching, native 4K, fast switching between apps, simpler remote experience - no switching activities on a universal remote and turning devices ON/OFF.

Unfortunately, they have an history of not being updated and even worse executing all kinds of spying activities on their users. [1]

We bought a dumb-TV and hooked up an Apple TV. At least Apple respect privacy a little more. We also have an XBox One, but we rarely use it. We only have time for quick games. The Apple TV has a nice selection of titles that you can play for a couple of minutes. In contrast to the XBox, it doesn't take ages to actually start up. (Yes, I know you can use standby, but it uses 15W.)

[1] https://www.wired.com/2017/02/smart-tv-spying-vizio-settleme...

[patja]

The Xbox Amazon video streaming app has always been pretty crappy. Significantly worse picture quality than streaming on a computer (unwatchable in my opinion), and odd/exceptional choices for navigation. Much of the blame for this is on Amazon, but some is on Microsoft as well for allowing Amazon to release such a poor quality application. I guess that is to your point on Apple vs. Microsoft: Apple wouldn't allow such a poor quality app on their platform, Microsoft gives them enough rope to hang themselves and doesn't stand in their way.

[remarkEon]

OTOH, I have an Xbox One and a 3rd Gen Apple TV and I much prefer the UI for video streaming on the Xbox to the Apple TV. Scrolling through things takes forever on the Apple device, while the Netflix and Hulu apps on the Xbox are a breeze and I can scroll through content with ease. Though, that's probably a function of the controller (much more input options on the Xbox controller than the Apple TV "remote").

[hsod]

My #1 UX issue is that it makes me manually sign into my profile every time I turn it on, which is a clunky and overlong process, even though I only have one profile and I ALWAYS use it.

[trashcan]

How to fix that: http://support.xbox.com/en-US/my-account/manage-account/chan...

[LynxInLA]

Do you have "Instant sign-in" turned on for that profile? I've never had an issue with that.

[dbot]

Agreed - I watch everything over Xbox since it streams audio to my headphones. Finding apps consistently took me weeks to figure out.

The other problem is that there is no unified control scheme for streaming apps. In theory, you are giving each app flexibility to create a unique experience. But in practice, you need to learn the random button mappings for FF, REW, etc. on every streaming platform.

[pure_ambition]

hmm... I've never had any of these problems.

The first time I used it I spent about 20 seconds looking for the "my games and apps" button, and since I've found it I've had zero other issues with the UI.

[supernovae]

I wholeheartedly disagree... It takes 5 minutes to learn the UI if even that long. You have pins, you have "blades" (they're just the top items that you navigate with bumpers) and a left side bar now.

My gut says way too many people look for reasons not to figure out things and blame the product for having shortcomings that are entirely self inflicted.

as for amazon, their app is rather crappy almost universally. Try netflix or Hulu..