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by Sunstruck 3371 days ago
It sounds like you don't pay market salaries and are in denial
2 comments

Not at all. The discussion of whether a person is a senior or mid level developer can be completely separate from a discussion of whether the company pays fairly for those positions.
Sounds like he is well aware that they aren't paying market salaries:

> - We are probably priced out of the market

Also what I meant when I said...

> I work at a startup that isn't profitable yet so our salaries are very low...

... was "too low... if we could afford it I'd pay three times that much" not "oh look what a great deal we are getting! Haha, suckers!"

Then I guess you are targeting the wrong pool of candidates. Do the candidates know how much can you pay (ranges?). It often happens that I as a candidate have to go through several rounds just to learn that they can't afford me.
So what Modulo is there to catch people out. If you were a front end developer do you really need this?

The fact employers will reject based on a test that is fashionable just because a few coding blogs said so doesn't mean they can't provide value. What about their past work or qualifications?

Cocky. Sounds like a clique i'd want to avoid at all costs.

I can't tell if you're being serious or trolling but using modulus in front-end is not all that uncommon. Especially when doing reporting or animation.

For years the only way to do zebra striped tables was that way.

Also, I never said...

1. We were taking about front-end.

2. We reject solely based on it. I just used it as an example of a type of question.

In fact we've hired candidates who didn't know what modulo was because when they encountered it they were able to reason through it.

Furthermore... this candidate failed far easier questions that that. I used FizzBuzz as the "hardest" question.

Does not knowing Fizz Buzz mean you won't be productive? No. But it is probably a good indicator you aren't commanding of $150k a year this guy got hired for.

I said Front end as an example could apply to most developer jobs really.

Anyway, this guy you placed as a "lower mid", this is your judgement, how do you know it's correct? Did other people say the same? Perhaps he didn't have the skills you were looking for but was good at other things. Saying the other company didn't do their diligence is easy but is that really what happened?

If you are hiring developers and placing them as lower, mid, lead etc. you are going to get flak anyway as you're just jailing them and hiring a load of people who only agree with what you think.

You're going to get people who are good at developing software who don't care about math(s) or machine learning, give them 2 seconds and Google and they can answer your Modulo question.

Is it not about the willingness and enthusiasm to learn? Or do they have to go through "hard" tests to prove they can work out some academic nonsense they are never going to need to use. To prove themselves to the frat. I'd argue a lot of really clever people good at the hardcore Computer science and data analysis type subjects aren't always as good at writing decent code.

If the candidate received and accepted another offer for twice what you would pay him, it is hard evidence that you pay half market value.

Planning to pay people half market value is madness. If you cannot afford salaries, you need a business plan that involves more profits and/or more "runway" of sacrificial capital or debt.

Hey... I know this is a late reply but so was your's :)

We pay about 70% below market. Unfortunately I am not the one that makes the decisions or the business plans. I am just barely high enough in the org to be privy to what people get paid.

For what it's worth I 100% agree with you.

The result is we get software engineers with much less experience. For what it's worth... they have all worked out very well. But I think someone with more experience would work twice as fast and therefor work out to about the same cost anyway.