[Ensorceled]

This is what drives me crazy about vegans.

Sorry, it is easier to eat meat. The protein IS higher quality, easier to digest and more balanced. Eating nutritional yeast and balancing your legumes, tofu and other protein sources to get a proper assortment of B vitamins and amino acids IS harder.

Not saying it's not healthier, not saying is not more ethical, not saying anything except it IS easier. Stop lying.

[throwaway243546]

> This is what drives me crazy about vegans.

Do you think all vegans are the same? There is no need to make a huge generalization about a group that is so diverse.

> The protein IS higher quality, easier to digest and more balanced

I've never seen anyone claim that meat is easier to digest than plants. Do you have a source?

In terms of quality, you first need to define quality and that depends on your goals. Whole plant protein comes packed with fiber, while animal protein comes packed with cholesterol, IGF-1 and saturated fat. If your goal is to prevent heart disease and cancer through dietary means, plant protein is higher quality.

> Eating nutritional yeast and balancing your legumes, tofu and other protein sources to get a proper assortment of B vitamins and amino acids IS harder.

This statement makes it clear that you don't know much about vegan diets. This is usually a concern I hear from pre-vegans or people who have been vegan for 2 weeks.

> not saying anything except it IS easier. Stop lying. If I was ever worried about getting all 9 essential amino acids in a single meal (believe me, most vegans don't think about it), I would eat beans and rice, or lentils and potatoes, or edamame, or tempeh, or quinoa, or hummus and crackers, or a peanut butter sandwich, or tofu. For me, this is a lot easier (and cheaper) than preparing meat.

If you've been eating meat for 20 years, it will be easier for you to keep eating meat, no one is disputing that.

Now, eating out is definitely harder as a vegan, but like the parent said, it's because the way society is currently setup, not because meat is easier to produce.

[Ensorceled]

> Do you think all vegans are the same? There is no need to make a huge generalization about a group that is so diverse.

True, I should have qualified this. It's only a subset of vegans who frustrate me this way.

> I've never seen anyone claim that meat is easier to digest than plants. Do you have a source?

Really? Google "is meat easier to digest than vegetable protein". It literally has millions of results.

> In terms of quality, you first need to define quality and that depends on your goals. Whole plant protein comes packed with fiber, while animal protein comes packed with cholesterol, IGF-1 and saturated fat. If your goal is to prevent heart disease and cancer through dietary means, plant protein is higher quality.

Yeah, I get this argument. It's why I'm eating vegetarian or vegan at least a few times a week these days.

> This statement makes it clear that you don't know much about vegan diets. This is usually a concern I hear from pre-vegans or people who have been vegan for 2 weeks.

I'm going by discussions such the ones in my vegan cookbooks, similar to this one:

http://veganhealth.org/articles/protein

> If you've been eating meat for 20 years, it will be easier for you to keep eating meat, no one is disputing that.

That was the crux of my argument: it is NOT easy to be vegan, stop saying it is. It is arguably better. Healthier and more ethically sound. But my vegan days have much more time-consuming shopping, cooking and prep days.

[ada1981]

For me, the ethical considerations alone make it harder. It is hard work for me to do things I consider unethical on a regular basis and I'd much rather not have the cognitive load of blocking out information on a daily basis.

My personal experience was that going vegan was much easier than not, as soon as I became aware of what was going on (at around age 18). Once I realized that animals have relationships and emotional lives, it became clear to me that they weren't "food" for me.. in the same sense humans aren't food for me.

Additionally, in terms agriculture, it seems like it requires more work and inputs to create meat, so that is harder as well.

I've been vegan for over a decade and it honestly feels like it's only made my life better.

[Ensorceled]

Yeah, I get that. Farming, especially modern methods, are pretty horrific.

I've been reducing meat in my diet and eat vegetarian a couple of days a week. I try to buy ethically raised meat for other days.

What I was reacting to is the idea that it is some how not an effort to be vegan, as if it isn't any more work than stopping off at MickyD's on the way home ...

[ada1981]

I would say that for me it's not any more effort at all, anymore than preferring Pepsi to Coke might be more effort.

Also, yes to reducing intake. The idea you have to go totally vegan to make an impact probably hurts the cause.

My ultimte frisbee coach used to say he would offer to buy people vegetarian meals as an offset, so he could still eat meat.

I dealt with my concern over dating non-vegan women when I realized I'd probably save more animals by the fact they would most likely eat less meat at least sometimes by being with me.

Finally, I think some of the best work being done for animals is the work in startups making vegan meats and such.

[lolwaaaat]

What drives you crazy about vegans? That your flawed, biased assumptions are challenged? Protein is in all whole foods. You don't need to eat soy, or legumes, to get your fill as a vegan. You just eat food. Like a regular person. Except you don't hurt animals in the process. Simple!

[Ensorceled]

Weird. All my vegan and vegetarian cookbooks have lentils, beans, chickpeas or tofu. often mixed with nuts, in pretty much every dish. And suggest nutritional yeast as a good source of B vitamins, especially B12 (admittedly as an additive)

This is wrong? Are you claiming you can just eat cruciferous vegetables, for instance, and be fine?

[lolwaaaat]

Well, humans require fewer than 5% of calories to be derived from protein, that's about 50-60g for males and slightly less for females. You could eat 2,500 calories of only fruit and still get enough protein. But not B12, that requires a supplement. The sources you mentioned are high in protein, but I would argue they aren't necessary for a functional vegan diet.

[Ensorceled]

As somebody who runs and trains in karate, I need more like 80g per day. I'd be hard pressed to do that with only fruit.

[lolwaaaat]

Why do you need more than 80g per day? What's the basis of this estimate?

[Ensorceled]

Running Room, Livestrong, MyFitnessPal, countless other sites, my running clinic leader, the sports nutritionist at my running clinic, my doctor (certified in sports medicine) all recommended between 80 and 100 grams.

You really don't know what you are talking about do you?