[cixin]

It's not a hugely popular opinion, but I'm still happier with the iPhone than any other phone currently on the market.

Not only do I find it nicer to use (which is somewhat subjective), but I still feel that Apple are standing up for user rights (e.g. FBI/government requests to make phones less secure) more than any other mobile manufacturer.

[Fnoord]

> It's not a hugely popular opinion

Eh? On the contrary; the iPhone appears to be the most popular phone on the market. Although there is not 'one' iPhone. There is the iPhone 6, 6S, 7, 7 plus, and the small SE.

For me, I'd like a small phone which I can easily hold in one hand. One I can remain using various years. Of which I can replace the battery myself. And, where it is I who decides which software I run (ie. not a review time ran by an American corporation). Of those 4 factors, sadly only the SE covers two (since iOS will run for say 3-4 years on SE). I'm also a proponent of longevity and reducing e-waste and while I cannot replace the battery of an iPhone myself the iPhones have a relatively large resale value, which is a plus compared to a lot of Android devices.

> I still feel that Apple are standing up for user rights (e.g. FBI/government requests to make phones less secure) more than any other mobile manufacturer.

Its easier to just buy a phone from a company who can't comply with such ridiculous claims from the US government. Imagine Apple was based in Ireland. Suddenly, the claim to insert a backdoor for the FBI in every iPhone is more ridiculous.

That was one of the reasons why I bought a phone from a company based in the same country as where I live.

[cixin]

> Its easier to just buy a phone from a company who can't comply with such ridiculous claims from the US government.

I think there's value in challenging the US government on these issues. It also helps set the tone in general.

Also, which non-US phone would you suggest? The only real alternative is Android. While there are various vendors, the software is almost completely written by Google. And therefore open to the possibility of a backdoor (or other) requests by the US government.

[josephg]

> And therefore open to the possibility of a backdoor (or other) requests by the US government.

Almost all the recent features on android phones require uploading crazy amounts of personal information to google's servers. While I had an android phone every new feature felt like a faustian bargain - "Let us store a bit more information about you and we'll make your phone better! C'mon it'll be fiiiine"

Governments don't need to touch your device when its uploading copies of everything to google's servers anyway. They can just ask google for the data directly.

And to be clear about what we're talking about, if you say yes to all the prompts (which I bet 90+% of people do) then google stores location history, audio recordings of all 'ok google' requests, email, contacts, call history, search history and a list of installed applications (so they know which 3rd parties to go after for more data). I don't know if they store SMSes, and I'm not sure what the update frequency of the location data is. But if you use google services, there's not much else for a device level backdoor to do.

[legacynl]

Just for the record, those are google services you talk about. Android itself is open source, and doesn't do any of those things.

[bluesilver07]

For practical purposes, does the difference really matter? Most consumer phones come with Google services on them. Building a usable ROM without Google services on them is not an easy task.

[h4waii]

Not only is it an extremely easy task for someone who wants such a thing, it's already been done and is widely available pre-build for a plethora of devices with projects like LineageOS (risen from CyanogenMod), AOSP, CopperheadOS etc...

[scarface74]

And if you choose non-Google Android, you don't get a lot of the features that make Android, Android. Google has been close sourcing huge chunks of Android over the years.

[Fnoord]

> I think there's value in challenging the US government on these issues. It also helps set the tone in general.

Sure, but a lot was and is also being decided behind the screens.

> The only real alternative is Android.

Depends on use cases. Also, there are Android derivative works.

> Also, which non-US phone would you suggest?

The Fairphone 2 allows one to run a completely open source version of Android which doesn't rely on Google [1]. But there are other alternatives as well. Jolla, for example.

> And therefore open to the possibility of a backdoor (or other) requests by the US government.

Is the software compiled deterministically?

Also, the hardware of nearly every phone is assembled in China. The chips nearly all come from China (Fairphone tried to work around it; couldn't). And therefore open to the possibility of a backdoor (or other) requests by the Chinese government.

[1] https://www.fairphone.com/en/2016/04/28/releasing-the-fairph...

[givinguflac]

For what it's worth, it's really not hard to replace a battery. Obviously not as easy as a "removable" battery, but not that hard.

[xHopen]

Totally agree with you. And when you use the apple watch, if you pay attention to details, it's an incredible and fascinating miniaturisation of a computer. It just amazing how well crafted is the user interface ( people can say and shoot critics all day the long , but , I take my hat out when I see the apple watch user interface)

[canuckintime]

> It just amazing how well crafted is the user interface ( people can say and shoot critics all day the long , but , I take my hat out when I see the apple watch user interface)

huh? The Apple Watch user interface is the worst of the smartwatches on the market. Even Apple themselves were practically apologizing for how slow and crappy the Applewatch UI was during the last WWDC event. Apple had to completely remove what they had previously touted as core features (side button for friends/heartbeat, Glances) in previous watchOS versions. Yet it's still a clusterfuck without an always-on display. AndroidWear is more simpler/intuitive and Samsung Gear is more elegant with the rotating bezel

[Analemma_]

Have you tried iOS3? Everything you were saying was totally true on the original Watch, but I t got a major UX overhaul right down to the fundamental interaction paradigm and, in my mind, improved a lot. Between that and the dual-core chips in the new watches it's considerably better than it was.

[gvurrdon]

I've tried both Android Wear (Moto 360, mainly) and the Apple Watch. Both of these devices were horribly slow when I first had them but with OS updates both have improved and, whilst not incredibly quick, are usable.

I also tried a Pebble Time; the display being always on and the longer battery life didn't really make any difference and the non-touchscreen UI seemed much more fiddly to me.

[dkonofalski]

The UI was slow, but it wasn't crappy. The UI was excellent on watchOS1 and I think, now that they've removed most of the delay and added the Dock in, watchOS3 is amazing.

[xHopen]

I can tell, you are not a developer

[gvurrdon]

Indeed, the watch is great. I'm not such a fan of the iPhone for various reasons, primarily that I find the interface a bit clunky and very much dislike the locked bootloader, App Store and so on.

But, to use Android Wear on an Android phone would involve activating various Google account settings I don't want to turn on.

[cm2187]

I used to have this opinion but I find the iphone increasingly frustrating.

First the constant nagging for apple services (iCloud, Apple Pay, Apple Music, etc). I have to opt out to each of them every time they push any minor (but mandatory) update to iOS.

Then the removal of the audio jack. I just have no appetite for dongles or additional batteries to manage and I need to be able to charge my iphone when I listen to my music.

Then the UI that used to be quite natural now has hundred of hidden gestures, that either make the UI non intuitive, or trigger when trying to do something else.

I'd like them to improve it. I have very appetite to switch to android, which I find a lot more problematic from a privacy point of view. But that doesn't look like the direction of the world.

[brandon272]

> Then the removal of the audio jack. I just have no appetite for dongles or additional batteries to manage and I need to be able to charge my iphone when I listen to my music.

How about bluetooth headphones? AirPods or otherwise? I highly recommend them. I happened to receive a pair of powerbeats wireless2 headphones a while back and while they're not perfect, using regular wired headphones feels incredibly archaic these days.

[cm2187]

As I said, no appetite to manage more batteries that I already do (which is already way too much).

[mirimir]

I totally agree.

However, I'm far less happy with the iPhone than the smartphone that I was expecting in the early 00s. I mean, why are we still stuck with this thing that we hold? It's like the Jetsons' version of a Bell handset. I was expecting on-body networking, heads-up display, virtual keyboard and pointer, etc. OK, so we have decent a decent speech-to-text interface. But it's not usable for actual work. /rant

edit: grammar

[qznc]

On-body networking: iPhone + iWatch + AirPods

Heads-up display: Google Glass is a proof of concept and then there is https://www.magicleap.com

Virtual keyboard and pointer: https://www.myo.com/

Speech-to-text interface: Not that useful for mobile, imho. Seems to work at home (Alexa, etc).

[mirimir]

On-body networking: modular CPU/RAM, storage, radio, modem, router, battery, AR headset, battery, etc

Heads-up display: Google Glass was weird. The focus was on "gargoyle" stuff, not on AR. The display needs to integrate with and enhance reality. Not a small area in a corner.

Speech-to-text interface: That works very well for me. For short messages, anyway. Proofreading and editing is essential, however. To avoid embarrassment and confusion.

[huckyaus]

Magic Leap is nowhere near general availability.

[ianai]

On body networking and heads up display seem like they'll never take off. Apple prices things way too high for the Watch and anything like Glasses to go mainstream. Not many people can invest what I'm guessing is at least 2k in personal use hardware. Plus I envision a lot of people calling it dorky, in general. I day dreamed the same though. I'm wondering when my everything machine will be my phone though. I.e. Dock it into a laptop shell or desktop dock for such orientations.

[cm2187]

I don't think everyone likes wearing glasses (or watches for that matter!)

[Shivetya]

The nice thing about the iPhone series is that you can use an older model and not feel left out. I am one of the every other version upgrade types and while with my plan I could replace the phone each time there is an upgrade for no real cost it just never has seemed necessary.

I did swap out of the version 4 simply because my lack of grace meant I had to replace the back glass more than once.

[throwanem]

My 4S got unusably slow (with even keystrokes taking ~75ms to register) after the iOS 8 update. How have you avoided such mishaps, which I gather are pretty common when putting newer iOS on older devices?

(Yes, I turned off the fancy stuff like Springboard background parallax. It helped but not enough.)

[return0]

Their iphone is certainly the "least bullshit" smartphone , with few gimmicks, reliability and more productive choices (lately they 're trying hard to ruin that however). I dislike their desktop and laptop OSs stronlgy, but i think they achieve the best balance with the iPhone.

But i could never believe the "user rights" thing. They may stand up in a few cases, but ultimately this kind of thing lies beyond their reach. I don't trust any phone maker with data.

[cixin]

It possibly lies beyond their reach, and ultimately we may be fighting a losing battle.

But there are two point really:

1. I think it's worth fighting (and they have had some success). 2. May telecoms vendors have volunteered more information than required in the past, I think it's unlikely Apple would.

Moveover, just having a large company challenge these issues changes the political environment.

[boomboomsubban]

They don't have any success, the phone in question was unlocked and Apple tried to help. And Apple was/is part of PRISM, they already have/are volunteering more info then required.

[FabHK]

Apple might not be perfect, but they are ahead of the alternatives in terms of privacy and security.

Apple builds iOS to sell hardware. Google builds Android to vacuum up more data to sell.

Have you had a look at the iOS Security white paper [1]?

"Spotlight Suggestions never sends exact location, instead blurring the location on the client before sending."

"iOS also uses a randomized MAC address [...] so it can’t be used to persistently track a device by passive observers of Wi-Fi traffic."

Spotlight: "Unlike most search engines, however, Apple’s search service does not use a persistent personal identifier across a user’s search history to tie queries to a user or device; instead, Apple devices use a temporary anonymous session ID for at most a 15-minute period before discarding that ID."

Apple Pay: "Full card numbers are not stored on the device or on Apple servers. Instead, a unique Device Account Number is created, encrypted, and then stored in the Secure Element. This unique Device Account Number is encrypted in such a way that Apple can’t access it."

iMessage: "Apple does not log messages or attachments, and their contents are protected by end-to-end encryption so no one but the sender and receiver can access them. Apple cannot decrypt the data."

FaceTime: "The audio/video contents of FaceTime calls are protected by end-to-end encryption, so no one but the sender and receiver can access them. Apple cannot decrypt the data."

"Location Services can be turned off using a single switch in Settings, or users can approve access for each app that uses the service. [...] Additionally, users are given fine-grained control over system services’ use of location information."

Plus you have fine-grained controls for access to microphone, camera, pictures, etc. per app. Has Android caught up with that, or is it still all or don't use the app?

[1] https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

[boomboomsubban]

Even if Google is worse, that doesn't make Apple good, it's not a two player market. I can't speak for stock android, but the fine grained controls are available in CyanogenMod, and apps are available that have most of the features you mention. Additionally, those apps are free software, so I don't have to blindly trust a member of PRISM that they are secure.

All of those features don't matter if there's a backdoor, and from what I read of the FBI case there is one they just foolishly closed it.

[kahnpro]

I've been an android user forever and my frustrations with the latest Android version has finally pushed me to try an iPhone.

It's amazing. Especially Apple Pay. I could never get my Android to work with mobile payments for any of my banks in Canada... Apple Pay just works beautifully.

The slightly weaker phone is worth it for the really top notch user experience. And it seems like iPhone is better programmed or optimized, because the performance feels waaaaay better than my latest gen "powerful" Android.

[vinay427]

Google Wallet definitely had problems, but it is worth noting that it was also launched years ahead of Apple Pay when NFC payment systems in most countries was more limited. Android Pay, launched after Apple Pay, works similarly well in my experience so at least we finally have decent smartphone adoption of NFC payments.

[dkonofalski]

And maybe that's exactly where Apple shines... they wait until they can get the tech to a place where it's usable and accessible. Android Pay and Google Wallet were both ahead of their time but, unfortunately, to their detriment.

[dosgonlogs]

Weaker Phone? I am not sure if you realize that the Iphone 7 actually has the best processor out of all Smartphones. Here you go:

http://www.techgrapple.com/apple-a10-sd-821-820/

[JimmaDaRustla]

I have and Android phone with my bank's app that supports mobile payments. I have my default card set for NFC payments, so it is simple as touching the finger print scanner while I tap and it works...not sure how Apple Pay differs that much.

[elastic_church]

I would switch to a Google Phone as soon as an Airdrop-esque solution emerges.

There is nothing more pitiful than being offline on vacation and someone with an amazing flagship android phone can't share the videos with everyone. And then their phone predictably gets lost or explodes.

15 years in and bluetooth file sending is still horrible and basically nonexistent, Apple's airdrop is pretty amazing. That'll keep me in the Apple ecosystem for now.

[xorxornop]

Wat? Android Beam works beautifully. Has done for years, is very fast, and triggered simply by tapping the phones together.

[illuminati1911]

It's not hugely popular opinion among bitter niche loving geeks but it is among normal people.

I'm sorry but someone had to say it.

[solidr53]

Have you tried the Google Pixel?

[emsy]

Google has a terrible track record when it comes to protecting their user's privacy (and security to a second degree)

[piyush_soni]

I'm not sure about it. I think most people are concerned about their privacy 'from' google, not Google's ability to protect their data from rest of the world. If it's the latter, I trust Google. For example, Google was the first one to start voluntarily publishing government's requests as transparency reports, which others had to follow. Even technically, they have done great deal of work (if you regularly read their blogs) to protect my data from unintended parties.

If it's the former, however, then it's arguable and a little subjective so I won't go into that.

[Fnoord]

> Google has a terrible track record when it comes to protecting their user's privacy (and security to a second degree)

Security to a second degree? One of the (valid) criticism to Android is that OEMs don't provide firmware updates or at least security and reliability fixes. This is a fair claim; you need to be careful about this if you decide to buy an Android phone (although there's the option to root a phone and install CM or LineageOS).

Google however in this case rules correctly by example. They've been updating Android firmware for their devices regularly, up till 2 years after purchase of device. If you want a secure Android phone, software-wise a recent Google device is one of your safest bets. Motorola's track record pre Lenovo was also good. Ever since Lenovo bought Motorola, not so much.

Of course, the privacy issue stands (insofar to profiling and internally in Google as they profit from knowing as much of you so they can advertise effectively) but that is the price of any Google product. That is where Google and Apple differ (at this time of writing; it can change, just look at Microsoft).

[emsy]

Yeah I meant the OEM situation. If google cared for Android user's security there would've been a certificate a long time ago. Where Apple might be overprotective (certs for charging cables), Google is absolutely negligent.

[Nullabillity]

Standing up for your right to not use your device as you please? Standing up for your right to lock-in your data with a single vendor?

[throwanem]

I know a guy who thinks it's great that, when a process pegs his phone's CPU, he can drop into a root shell and kill -9 it from top.

I think it's great that in five years of iPhone ownership that's not a problem I've ever had, or even had to think about. And the only Apple service I use is the app store.

Horses for courses. If you want total control and software freedom, you won't prefer an iPhone. If you want the closest available approximation to appliance-level reliability, you won't prefer anything else.

[cixin]

The other issue for me actually is that while I might like to drop into a shell sometimes I don't really feel Android phones offer me much in that regard either.

Android is far for a standard Linux/UNIX system. And it's hard to build one on top of Android because of their use of BIONIC rather than glibc.

So, I feel that Android has taken Linux and crippled it to suit their ends. To me jailbroken iPhones felt much more like standard UNIX phones than Android phones.

My ideal phone doesn't exist. But he iPhone is still the nearest match right now.

[Fnoord]

I use macOS every day, and I love it. And it is me who owns the hardware, and who is root on the device (I can't say I own the software). If I want to kill a process on macOS, I am free to do this. I don't have this freedom on iOS. On my Android phone I have the freedom to root the device (which is sort of supported by Fairphone), and if ever the OS isn't supported anymore I can just run CM or LineageOS or stock Android on it myself. You don't have that liberty on iOS devices. Jailbreaking on iOS isn't very feasible because you end up having to run code to exploit iOS. Which means your phone has a known vulnerability which you want to get fixed. But you can't without the source.

[throwanem]

> I don't have this freedom on iOS.

Right. But, to my earlier point, you never really need to, either, because the OS does a good enough job of managing resources that such intervention is not required. I'm sure there exist corner cases, but having never hit one in half a decade of extensive use, I am prepared to argue they are vanishingly rare.

That's the tradeoff: a lower granularity of control over the system, in exchange for a system well enough designed that such granularity is not required for stable and performant operation. There's an argument to be made that the tradeoff shouldn't exist, but that's theoretical unless Craig Federighi is actually on the panel. Here in the world of things that are, it's worth keeping in mind that the compromise is exactly that: yes, we give something up, but we get something in exchange for it, too.

[Fnoord]

> Right. But, to my earlier point, you never really need to, either, because the OS does a good enough job of managing resources that such intervention is not required.

What do you mean? I'm not aware of any SSH which fulfils my needs on iOS. Or Android for that matter. On Jolla (and MeeGo/Maemo) you had a CLI at your command. The conundrum is you don't know what you're missing unless you had it before to begin with. Case in point: there's an entire generation of children raising up with touchscreens. That exposure has a price.

What do you consider the best browser on macOS? I don't consider Safari the best one. YMMV. At least you and I got the freedom to run another browser on macOS (those versions of Firefox and Chrome on iOS are not the real deal). I got the freedom to run Tmux, Vim. I got the freedom to compile my own version of OpenSSH which includes a patch for additional functionality. I get to decide which browser extensions I get to run (without having to rely on Apple to decide which extensions are allowed for Safari). I get to configure ssh and sshd. I'd like to take the risk myself of taking it for granted when/if it breaks.

I am actually OK with all of this as long as I don't have to rely overly on my phone. However, smartphones have become so important now, and I end up having and needing a MBP to make up for it. There's going to be a time where the computers (smartphones, tablets, etc) running iOS are so powerful that you can easily run a lot more on them. And, with that progress, they become less of an embedded device and therefore the freedom to decide what you run is increased.

Finally, there's Apple who decides who's in and who's out. Americans are totally cool with violence of all sorts and kinds, but as soon as the first thing a baby sucks on is shown its suddenly drama. I find that bollocks, and I don't want to be scrutinised to such a culture deciding on what I am and am not allowed to run on my device. The device I (not an American) worked hard for to afford, the device I bought, and the device I own (not rent). No, Google isn't perfect either; Google earns money via advertising, Google just blocked an anti adware extension in Chrome called Ad Nauseam, and they also don't allow certain software in GCM.

[tdkl]

You say crippled, one might say made it useful for the cause. One huge feature of Android was and is the application packaging, which is a PITA on desktop Linux to this date.

[randallsquared]

> I think it's great that in five years of iPhone ownership that's not a problem I've ever had

I wonder what it is that your acquaintance and I do differently than you? I've been an iPhone user for a bit less than two years, and I am frustrated with it almost every day. Of course, the same was true of my HTC and Samsung Android phones previously, and even to some degree of the Nokia N900 (still the best phone I ever had).

It is not a common occurrence, but every now and then I do have some issue where my iPhone freezes and I have to reboot it to get it to come back. More commonly, miscellaneous things go wrong, like text in some areas becoming invisible, or opening an application showing me a blank screen for twenty seconds before the application either comes up or silently quits for no apparent reason. Most frustratingly, the sequence of touches I need to go through to do something requires me to react to each individual screen that results, rather than being something that I can do all at once, or even just being fast enough that I'm not paused, waiting, while some application screen takes its time loading.

If the delays were consistent, I wouldn't be very upset about it, because I would expect a certain time in between each action. If the phone could keep up the UI interactions, then that would be even better.

And typing lag... don't get me started. :(

I feel like expectations for hardware that is unrelated to the function of my phone has gone way, way up (thinness, smooth edges, tiny bezels) and the attention to the actual functioning of the phone in a consistent and timely manner is now much worse than it used to be, all around.

[throwanem]

Well, I'm running 9.3.5 on an SE, so there's that.

In general I tend to agree with those who argue that Apple's peaked and is going downhill, and I accordingly expect that, whatever the new bells and whistles, iOS 10 will work less well for things I actually do every day (like typing!) than iOS 9 does, which in turn has been a regression from iOS 8. The hardware's not improving, either, and I don't think Apple has correctly understood occurrences like the difference between expected and actual demand for the SE versus the 7 and 7+.

But, as best I can judge from the experience of Android-owning acquaintances and colleagues, for all iOS' and the iPhone's flaws, it's still by far the most solidly reliable smartphone platform on the market, and that's what counts the most for me. Others who feel differently will make different choices, and that's fine. I don't see why people seem to want to make such a big fight about it.

[neotek]

>Standing up for your right to lock-in your data with a single vendor?

Apple didn't lock me in, I gladly locked myself in, because Apple's ecosystem is cohesive in a way that nobody else even comes close to.

I love being able to make and receive calls and texts from my MacBook, I love having my documents in the cloud waiting for me wherever I am, I love being able to start browsing a site on my laptop and transfer it seamlessly to my phone on my way out the door, I love being able to take photos while I'm out and have them sitting on my PC before I even get home, and most of all I love that all of these things just happen without me even having to think about it.

There are a million different options for me, I could very easily switch to Android and use a dozen different services like Dropbox and Flickr and whatever the messaging app du jour is on Android these days to achieve the same results, but why on earth would I want to?

[tingol]

Google docs, drive and photos do those things and way better than apple imo. If the cohesiveness of the ecosystem is your most important measure, google is second to none.

[neotek]

Great, so that's one small part of the ecosystem covered, how about handoff between apps on my phone and apps on my laptop? How about a unified messaging system that lets me send SMS messages and make phone calls from my laptop?

Google is fine if all you need is the sliver Google offers, and if you're okay with Google doing their level best to violate your privacy, but there's so much more to Apple's ecosystem that nobody has replicated right now.

[pmontra]

Sending SMS from the laptop can be nice for the same reasons I sometimes use the web versions of WhatsApp, Messenger and Telegram (days of long conversations), but making calls... Do they hand over to the phone if you want to walk to another room without bringing the laptop with you? I start only business calls on my laptop with Skype or Hangout, because I know I'll be at the keyboard working while speaking. Calls with friends, those start on the phone almost always.

App integration between phone and laptop looks nice but in fact for most people all it matters is email and files, mostly pictures and musing. Those are covered by Google and possibly by Dropbox, plus some streaming service.

Anyway, yes, even a slight edge over the competitors is better than no edge.

[dkonofalski]

Yes... FaceTime handles both audio and video calls so that you can unlock your phone and the call transfers to the handset. It's really, really convenient. Throw in an iPad and the Handoff/Coherence features are really, really awesome.

[cixin]

I don't really feel my data is locked in to any great degree.

I don't use iCloud for backup. I use my own mail provider. What lock-in are you referring to? I think it would be pretty painless for me to move to Android if I wanted.

I agree the AppStore is more limiting than some alternatives, but overall I think Apple have more interest in user rights than Google.

Android development is not paid for through licensing fees (to any great degree) it's paid for by advertising via Google being the default service/search provider on the platform. This puts you in the position of the advertiser being the customer and the phone user being more like the product.

I personally prefer the Apple model where the phone user is the customer. However I do realize it's not entirely ideal. It just feels like the best option currently available to me.

[audunw]

> Standing up for your right to not use your device as you please?

What right? Most people (but not enough) have some sense that privacy is an actual right. The number of people who think that it's a right that every device you own with an MCU or CPU should be a completely open general programming platform is a fraction of a percent.

> Standing up for your right to lock-in your data with a single vendor?

What lock-in? You can have all your iPhone data (contacts, notes, etc.) on Gmail if you want, you can have all your photos synchronized to Dropbox. Which data are you referring to?

I have to be honest and say that this comment comes off as a knee-jerk reaction. I mean, you probably have some valid criticism in there if you worded it better. It would definitely be much better for us geeks if iPhone was more open. But a right? Get real.

[Nullabillity]

> What right? Most people (but not enough) have some sense that privacy is an actual right. The number of people who think that it's a right that every device you own with an MCU or CPU should be a completely open general programming platform is a fraction of a percent.

Ultimately, those are the same thing. There is no privacy if you can't inspect it and verify that it's upholding its promises.

> What lock-in? You can have all your iPhone data (contacts, notes, etc.) on Gmail if you want, you can have all your photos synchronized to Dropbox. Which data are you referring to?

If you've used one word processor, how do you open them in another without using any external service?

[josephg]

> Ultimately, those are the same thing. There is no privacy if you can't inspect it and verify that it's upholding its promises.

If you want to go down that road the software you need to inspect includes all the software with access to your data.

In android's case this includes all sorts of proprietary code running in google's infrastructure that you'll never see. If you enable all the features of a modern android phone the amount of data google tracks about you is staggering. All that data is available to any government that asks for it directly from google. Google is actively incentivised to data mine, use and sell my data. I don't think they sell it - but thats the direction the incentive arrows point.

If you want to roll your own, or use one of the non-google android forks then I respect that decision from a privacy standpoint. (Although my security engineer voice is much more nervous.) But stock android is a privacy disaster (at least if you worry about google / the US govt). The ability to root your device is nice, but in google's ecosystem the computers that really matter are the servers.

[Nullabillity]

No, Android isn't good either, but at least it's possible to use Copperhead and co.

> The ability to root your device is nice, but in google's ecosystem the computers that really matter are the servers.

Funny that, does Apple allow push notifications without telling APNS about the notification message yet?

[kamilner]

> Funny that, does Apple allow push notifications without telling APNS about the notification message yet?

Yes, of course they do. That's what remote-notification UIBackgroundMode is for. How did you think encrypted messaging apps like WhatsApp and Signal showed message previews?

[zimpenfish]

> There is no privacy if you can't inspect it and verify that it's upholding its promises.

But unless you're a top-end OS developer AND a top-end embedded systems designer at the same time, how are you going to analyse something as complex as the iPhone and verify that?

[willstrafach]

I have done this. iOS may be closed source, but firmwares are no longer encrypted, so you can reverse engineer anything that you are curious about.

[zimpenfish]

Sure, you can see the code / source / raw binary. But actually analysing and verifying every part for security or privacy concerns - bearing in mind you have to consider all the possible interactions this code can generate - and that's before you even get to the hardware interactions - is still beyond 99% of developers, never mind normal people.

[nicky0]

> If you've used one word processor, how do you open them in another without using any external service?

By using a share sheet to send it to the other word processor, surely.

[xHopen]

Do you live in the Rainforest without internet access ? I mean.. even the simple action of switching on the light of your living room , triggers data that later on will be sold and use by third party companies... please.