[rtpg]

Beyond the moral arguements, the real reason nothing has happened is that this has absolutely no popular support in areas who actually have undocumented immigrants.

People in these areas usually are fine with them because "who cares". Businesses are fine because they usually represent cheap labor. Local governments have a lot to do on their plate already, they don't want to go in the immigration business.

These policies are basically "federal overreach". Feds fly in to do something the locals do not want.

Do you think LA is a sanctuary city because of Obama? It's the will of the people. Who cares what people in Iowa think?

[idlewords]

We're fine with them because they're our friends and neighbors.

[x0x0]

And republicans are fine with them because they need cheap workers they can abuse who will never call OSHA, that they can steal wages from, and that they can stiff on workers comp.

For just one of so many appalling stories: https://www.thenation.com/article/immigrant-workers-are-bein...

If we actually wanted to stop illegal immigration, getting serious about e-verify and levying enormous fines on employers would get the job done.

[mc32]

Oh for sure. But the dimming of prospects for low skills Americans may have the Repubs, with their newfound populism, find that to survive as a party they will have to look out for the derided suburban worker instead of the guy or gal who sit in corner offices.

[x0x0]

I will believe it when it happens (not that I would object, the middle class needs all the help it can get).

But so far, the populism looks like hokum. For just one example, Carrier was bribed to stay. And probably in a way that gets more money to the execs than to the employees. My bet is grift all the way down...

[mc32]

It ain't going to happen but I'd love to see Bernie tapped for a labor dept job. Get him in, co-opt him and have him go at the sellouts who move ops overseas to save a few bucks.

[mc32]

It takes many legal immigrants years to get status. Some of them wait a decade. I've known a few who had to wait this out. For these people having others jump the line is not a friendly gesture.

Most people welcome immigrants, so long as they follow the rules others have to follow.

Arguably our system is in need of reform or many kinds (it's our prerogative to seek immigrants of high value to the economy, for example, or those who fill a skills gap or labor gap -say farm workers)

[tptacek]

I'm fine with them because I'm a parent, and the idea of deporting the parents of my children's friends and classmates makes me nauseous and angry. I don't much care for any analysis past that.

It was the same with the trans bathrooms. You might be surprised how many of us parents have kids with trans friends. The issues get real clear real fast when you see how they affect your kids friends. It's not at all hard to get a glimpse of how they'd affect your kids, if circumstances were different.

[mc32]

The trans thing is something I don't get. It's a non issue. Make all bathrooms unisex. Any one can use any bathroom. In the end women get more access to bathrooms than they do now. Stick a couple of urinals here and there.

When people get into a country illegally, they know it's illegal. They know the consequences (for themselves and any dependents), but they hope they will not get caught and do it anyway, so it's hard to see it as if the state "did this" to them. I've seen this in China, Japan, etc. They know any day could be their last. Many had to have their friends sell their belongings for them because in those places you may have a week at most to get out.

[rtpg]

Most undocumented immigrants are people who overstay an original visa. The reasons for people being in places are rarely simple.

[tptacek]

Moreover, whatever you have to say about the parents, the children are American citizens, with all the rights and privileges our grandparents fought World War 2 to preserve. If their families are to be torn up, there needs to be a better reason than lack of immigration paperwork.

[rtpg]

That's super true, though it's important to remember that ghettos are still a thing in all but name only in some cities. Public transit routes still get voted down because "they" might show up in the nicer parts of towns.

[mc32]

As jobs are automated away and our own unskilled labor force finds it harder to find any job, there will be more concern about it.

All the feds have to do is enforce e-verify. If anything Trumps win likely signifies distress from the working class. If the Dems dig in their heals and cater more to non citizens than they do their own citizens, I'm afraid they may lose in the next election again.

[pcwalton]

> All the feds have to do is enforce e-verify.

No, that is plainly not sufficient, which is obvious because many states already do this. Unless by "enforce E-Verify" you mean something far more drastic.

[mc32]

It means you fine people or firms hiring people who don't have work documents. No excuses. Forged? They get fined and pay for the ticket back to home country of person using forged docs.

[postcarnival]

> If the Dems dig in their heals and cater more to non citizens than they do their own citizens, I'm afraid they may lose in the next election again.

This is precisely why Trump won more than any reason. He made an appeal to the most important group in America, the middle class, and they agreed with him.

[mc32]

I'm not sure Trump has it in him, but if he did and courted the black working class the right way, I think he could start winning them over from the Dems. But he has to be serious about creating jobs for them, it means raising the min wage to $15 and not allowing undocs to undercut citizen workers.

Trump should learn one thing. Black families like jobs. They'll vote for jobs. They also want, if not always like the police but jobs would go a long way to smoothing things over, as with any pop.

[postcarnival]

agree, I'm optimistic, he may be the best President ever...

[macrael]

How do you feel about this: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/trumps-off-the...

[rtpg]

he lost the popular vote, and only won it within income brackets above $60k+.

He won because everyone voted along party lines + similar turnout to 2000 (Dem marginally above Rep turnout). All other narratives do not match the actual results.

[tedunangst]

How does that explain winning states like PA, which voted for Gore in 2000 by 4%?

[tptacek]

White voters in PA that voted for Obama last cycle were 2-3x more likely to stay home than to vote against HRC.

[tedunangst]

That's a tough stat to parse. Where did you find that?

Sounds contradictory to http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/upshot/how-did-trump-win-o... for instance, but that's a bit older. Maybe I missed something.