[steven777400]

I love reading accounts like this. It's fun and well written and I enjoy the photos too.

I work in a cube farm of grey cubes on boring LoB applications. I know I'll never be skilled enough (or, more correctly, I'll never be ambitious enough to become skilled enough) to work at Google et al but it's really fun to sample the experience from the outside. :)

[mattlondon]

Also to chime in with the other Googlers here: apply. Apply. Apply. Apply.

There is a lot of varied work going on internally at Google. As well as the hard-core, intense, "pure" software engineering work that everyone thinks about going on at Google (search, self-driving cars, android, machine learning etc etc), there is also a lot of ... how can I put this nicely? erm ... lets say "less-pure" software engineering going on.

The hiring-bar is understandably high for the pure software engineers, but there are other roles. I am not a "software engineer" at Google (I am in another "less-pure" engineering role in the same office that was in the pictures in the article) but I still spend all day every day coding using the same equipment, tools, technologies and infrastructure as the "pure" engineers and we all get the same perks. The difference is that my work is mostly internal-only and generally wont get used by our end-users. And even if you're not a coder, there are still lots of roles that require technical skills to help our customers sort out their own technical problems.

Pre-emptive answers to potential questions:

* I just applied from the website for a job that sounded like a reasonable fit (not referral, no prior contact). The recruiters took it from there. Prior experience was a few years at IBM and a CompSci degree.

* Perks are good but I still do 8:30 - 5 each day, sometimes I work from home if I am feeling lazy. In my London office some people stay late, but usually just because it is easier to schedule meetings with team members in the US (time overlaps etc)

I want to work with eager, intelligent people so please I really do encourage anyone reading this to go take a look and apply. https://www.google.com/about/careers/

Good luck!

[TooGhosty]

Would you be able to give some examples of job titles for positions that you would consider "less-pure"?

[mattlondon]

Sure - Technical Solutions Engineer, Customer Solutions Enigneer, Web Solutions Engineer, Application Engineer, Developer Relations Engineer are a few off of the top of my head.

[euyyn]

From a SWE that's worked a lot with DevRel: these guys do the Lord's work; I have them in a pedestal. Cloud without DevRel would be like a pharma company researching new drugs, but without doctors that know how to diagnose patients and choose and explain the appropriate combination of treatments.

And they're also the ones that get to appear in most dev tutorial videos!

[_RPM]

Why would you tells someone on HN who is probably a software engineer to apply to google for non software engineer roles?

[sb8244]

I didn't read the comment as such. Comment author assumes (correctly I'm sure) that some people reading feel like they aren't good enough to work at Google because they aren't hardcore software engineers. The point was you can still code and get the perks even if you aren't that, you just won't be on the self driving cars or customer facing projects.

[mattlondon]

The point I was trying to make is that you do not need to be at the absolute top-end of software engineers to apply for and work at Google.

If you are, then great! But if you are not the very best-of-the-best that is fine as there are still options for you to work at Google and write code for a living, just you probably wont be working on the sexiest world-changing products.

[linkregister]

What are LoB applications?

I think you suffer from an extreme case of imposter syndrome. Looking through your comment history, I conclude you are more than capable of working there. Whether it would fit with your location/work-life-balance/life goals, I am not sure. Google gets an inflated reputation as do many other prestigious firms. The interview process contains a large element of chance.

1. I would suspect that anyone who has a passion for including more high-level thinking in the classes they teach has the right approach to technology. Let alone that you actually teach a programming course to begin with.

2. Many of your comments show insights into computing and algorithms that I would say are of the same caliber of those of my friends who work at Google.

[Tushon]

Not OP, but LOB stands for Line of Business and the TL;DR is that it is any application which fulfills a critical business need https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_business

[linkregister]

It sounds like a perfect set of experience to go to freelancing and then remote development. It seems like going remote is the 2nd most popular endgame for most individual contributors on HN (lucrative startup exit being the first).

steven777400 is ahead of the game!

[leshow]

What specifically struck you about his comment history? I spent a few minutes digging through it and nothing really jumped out at me, very little of it was about engineering at all really. At least that I could see in the few minutes I spent glancing at it. Do you work at google yourself? What are you basing this opinion on?

[gmurphy]

I thought the same thing once, but applied anyway on a whim. Have now been at Google for 11 years.

It can't hurt to try.

[titanix2]

It can hurt in my experience.

I've been interviewed by Google for position once because they contact me on LinkedIn; I didn't think this site was actually useful before that. I had the classic code writing phone screening with a question I figured the answer but I had to reschedule it because of bad wireless connection (university library, home was not even my wifi). The next time my setting was better but the interview was harder and I failed it. After that I got kinda bad feeling over my skills, lack of luck, being not-smart-enough and the graduate work to do I didn't do in favor of interview preparation.

In the end it was not so bad because getting a job there would have mean not doing my international student exchange year and give up my second master degree, for which I worked even more.

Another time I applied for an internship at Microsoft, I got a programming question that was not in the book (unlike Google) but I managed to got a solution. I was thinking it was fine despite a silly right/left error but still get rejected at the skype screening step. I didn't really get accustomed by my first failed attempt at Google so I lived it like a confirmation of my lack of skills. I felt so bad about it I didn't program for a while after that (three weeks or maybe even one month).

I guess mental preparation is almost as important or even more than algorithmic one. Maybe be I'll try it again one day, not to stay on a fail.

[euyyn]

I see what you're saying. If it helps, remember that impostor syndrome is a real thing, and that many that work at Google failed their first interview too. I think the hiring process if biased towards avoiding false positives at all cost, which means it has many false negatives.

[LaMarseillaise]

How did you apply? What experience, skills, and education did you have when you applied?

[gmurphy]

A Googler posted on their blog that they were looking, so I emailed him and he referred me. At the time I had dropped out of an EE+CS degree, had four years of suit-wearing professional experience writing enterprise webapps in PHP and ColdFusion, was halfway through a part-time Masters Degree in Design, and had a bunch of small JavaScript/C++/Art side projects. They hired me as a SWE, am now in UX.

I won't pretend that I wasn't very lucky in timing, interviewers, etc, but you won't get anywhere if you don't roll the dice.

[photogrammetry]

What's your salary/compensation?

[Jaruzel]

One of the problems with working for a high profile tech company (that isn't a startup) is that the Salary package is never that great, compared to say, Financial IT in the same geo-location. Most people work at these places for the culture, kudos, and not to get rich per se.

I've had several offers to go work for Microsoft (as that's where my skills lie) but I've turned them down as they all involved a hefty pay cut that I couldn't afford to do.

[poikniok]

You expect a director at Google to post their comp? Seriously?

[jrvarela56]

Care to share your business acumen with us instead of mocking someone for asking a question?

[photogrammetry]

Only reason for the question was to see how inflamed HN commenter(s) (you) would get. People at startups are mocked all the time for their low wages, and forced to release them, but those in positions of experienced authority never have to.

[lallysingh]

Director?

[draw_down]

One of the best things you can learn is that nobody knows what they are doing.

The only problem is when the people you're interviewing with don't know that yet.

[wsh91]

Hey, I know others on here have already chimed in, but I joined Google not that long ago having been rejected twice before. Please don't sell yourself short. Give us a try.

[thewhitetulip]

I live in India, have written a tutorial on Go, https://github.com/thewhitetulip/web-dev-golang-anti-textboo..., am decent with Go, am learning Vue.js, writing book on it as well, http://github.com/thewhitetulip/intro-to-vuejs/.

I am a full geek, applied twice. Didn't get any reply!

edit: changed book to tutorial

[gaius]

No disrespect intended, but if you have on your CV that you have "written a book" and it turns out not to be an actual book, with an actual publisher, in actual bookstores, it will create a bad impression with most interviewers. You should rephrase it as an "online tutorial" or something.

[thewhitetulip]

Thank you for the advice. I always tend to write a short tutorial, but then people ask, "what made you write the book" or "what's the structure of your book if I want to contribute". That's why I end up writing book. I will keep this tip in mind :-)

[rxlim]

I read your tutorial some time ago and found it to be very good, probably one of the best introductions to Go I have read so far. Keep up the good work.

[thewhitetulip]

Thank you :-)

[ocdtrekkie]

I really hate reading people believe they aren't skilled enough or won't be good enough to work at Google. When you realize all of the toys are part of an extremely successful strategy to keep you at the office as long as possible, and that Google is a huge company that has to hire thousands of people every year, you realize that this view that Google is "the best place to work" or that everyone who works there is a genius is silly.

While some of the most intelligent people I know work at or have worked at Google at some point, I know just as many Googlers I would describe as incompetent company men incapable of seeing beyond a PR line. Please don't ever get the impression that Googlers are somehow above you, because they're not. They're just people doing jobs.

You probably deserve more credit than you give yourself, and hey, humility is a virtue.

[munificent]

> When you realize all of the toys are part of an extremely successful strategy to keep you at the office as long as possible

Ugh, I can't believe how often I see this repeated with zero evidence to support it.

I work at Google. The office is a ghost town by 6:30. The work life balance on every team I'm aware of is great.

Saying the perks are some underhanded strategy to keep people around hugely insults the intelligence of the people working here or at any other office for that matter. Do you honestly think there are people that are like, "God, I'm miserable! I've been here 16 hours and I hate my life but I just... can't... stop... playing foosball!" Damn you, Google, and your nefarious perks!

No, that doesn't happen.

The reality is that skilled software engineers are in very high demand and companies compete very hard for them. Salary is part of it but perks are a huge component. No matter how much cash you make, for eight hours of the day, you are not spending it on fun leisure, you are at work. So companies understand now that they have to make the workplace appealing too to keep talent.

They also find, no surprise, that happy, stimulated people are productive, creative people too.

> Please don't ever get the impression that Googlers are somehow above you, because they're not.

I totally agree.

[drewg123]

I agree as well.

I was at Google for a little over 2 years, and it was like a vacation after the small company I was at previously. I went from feeling like the future of the company depended on how fast I could fix a customer's bug or add a new feature to being a cog in a machine. Eg, 80hrs/week to about 45, and the ability to not obsess about my work email while on vacation (thereby actually making it a vacation).

I was contributor to the "ghost town" effect. I would come in around 6am and leave around 3pm to be able to pick my son up from school and spend more time with him.

[linkregister]

I agree. I know a couple of outliers at Google who work long hours, but even the business folks aren't working much more than 45-50 hours per week. None of the engineers I know work more than 40 hours per week.

I've heard that some engineering teams at Amazon and Apple work long hours, but never heard it about Airbnb, Facebook, Google, LinkedIn, Microsoft (last 5 years), or Uber.

[home_boi]

>Uber

Some teams do

[i336_]

Yikes.

[i336_]

Maybe I'm little dense, I'm unsure why this is at -2 right now. Useless/unhelpful remark (sorry) or did I misinterpret the thread?

[foobarian]

I got a job at a perk-loaded web shop along that same vein, and the thing about "toys" and various other benefits is that they help my time at the office be more efficient. In particular the cynical view that they keep you at the office longer has some truth to it, but the mechanism at play is relatively honest. For example take free food; I love not having to go outside to get lunch. I'm often in the middle of a good flow and it's so nice to be able to bring some food to my desk in 5 minutes instead of having to spend an hour finding a seat, waiting for the check etc. This means I can get more done while at the office, and still go home early to be with the kid.

Similar for the other things like the pub or foosball; I can have a quick evening of hanging out with friends right there on the premises instead of driving an hour to meet up somewhere. So again the time saved ends up helping the company, and benefits me as well because who likes to sit in traffic.

I'm not saying it's better to do those things 100% of the time, but some healthy fraction. Of course it's a nice break to walk down the street for lunch on a nice day, etc.

[wbsun]

> No, that doesn't happen.

hmm, not really, there was one time, my nap took so long that I had to pay almost $100 late fee to my daughter's preschool...

[lostboys67]

And also in the USA the IRS is very lenient when it comes to taxing benefits in kind.

Back when I worked for British telecom in new buildings they wanted to offer free tea and coffee - HMRC said no you have to pay tax and that was the end of that.

Of course then one senior manger worked out that there was tax allowance that allowed a tax free profit related bonus and the company gave every one a $300 tax free bonus as a F&^k you to the tax man

[jacques_chester]

In Australia, the Fringe Benefits Tax is similarly capable of sucking the frills and perks out of any situation.

I've worked in offices where we paid for coffee by an honour system.

A local council, which makes some revenue through parking metres, was required to put parking metres on its own carpark and charge its own employees, because it was Council land and this would make it a fringe benefit. There wasn't much sympathy, but still.

[namelezz]

> skilled software engineers are in very high demand and companies compete very hard for them

I keep hearing this but when I ask how to identify skilled engineers things get confused. ;)

[humanrebar]

It's mostly about keeping the ones you already have.

[chimmy88]

To sound as snarky as you do, if you can't identify skilled engineers, you aren't one.

[vonmoltke]

> The reality is that skilled software engineers are in very high demand and companies compete very hard for them.

Nobody has ever competed hard for me. "Skilled software engineers" is a very broad category, and only a subset are actually competed for. Choose the wrong specialization, live in the wrong area, or work for the wrong companies and you'll be lucky to even get acknowledgement of your applications.

[edblarney]

"Saying the perks are some underhanded strategy to keep people around hugely insults the intelligence of the people working here or at any other office for that matter."

I believe that the original motivation for offering free lunch was a calculation WRT how much time people 'wasted' driving to and fro a restaurant, and how much Google could/save profit by having the perks.

I do not believe Google is entirely nefarious with this culture and perks etc. - but please do not be so naive - it's a corporation, just like any other. Nearly everything they do - even internal practice - is oriented towards profit.

[cromwellian]

I left the office at 5:40pm tonite, about majority of my team had already left.

Most Googlers I encounter are extremely humble. I'd say one of the most valuable things about Googley culture is the lack of prima donna alpha-male macho-engineer behavior. Because Google has so many highly skilled engineers, and because it frowns in general on being an egotistical jerk, it's hard for even huge egos not to adopt some humility.

How can I think I'm the bees knees, when I work at a company that employs Rob Pike and Jeff Dean?

I've worked at IBM, Oracle, and several mid-sized companies over my 20 years as an engineer, and while many of those companies had high quality engineers, I'd say the biggest benefit of Google is the Company culture it created, not the skill levels of the people.

[Jaruzel]

> I'd say one of the most valuable things about Googley culture is the lack of prima donna alpha-male macho-engineer behavior.

I'd love to work in a place like that. I'm sick and tired of people riding rough-shod over others in the workplace just because they think they are better than them.

Most places now value the voice of the loudest shouter, over the voice of the experienced knowledgeable specialist, so much in fact that everything becomes a dick measuring contest. As someone who doesn't identify as a typical male, this makes for a very uncomfortable working environment.

[mountaineer22]

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[chrisseaton]

> I left the office at 5:40pm tonite

I can't tell if this is supposed to be evidence that you don't work long hours or an admission that you do.

[cromwellian]

I usually don't get into the office until after 10.

[cromwellian]

BTW, keep in mind, many people stay late or come in late to avoid traffic on the 101.

[bschwindHN]

It all depends on the starting time.

[ocdtrekkie]

That company culture must look really different from in there than it does from out here.

[cromwellian]

Given how about 90% of your posts on HN are attacking Google, that Googlers have continued to try to engage you in rational discussion nicely speaks volumes.

[ocdtrekkie]

Engaging me in what you believe to be "rational" discussion isn't going to change my posts. Because despite your attempt to ignore addressing the issues I highlight by grouping them together and characterize me as a 'hater', I'm a pretty straight shooter.

If you want to change my commentary, you have to change your employer. Why not ask Larry Page at those company AMAs why Google keeps their contracts with manufacturers (now seen as illegal in most countries) so secret? Why not tell Larry Page you don't want to work at a company that uses political corruption to avoid being subject to the same laws as everyone else? Ask Larry Page to stop getting Google involved in overthrowing world leaders, and otherwise going well outside the reasonable bounds of a tech company. Tell Larry Page you want to work at a company that puts people, not algorithms, in charge of customer service. I mean, you literally now work at a company that's operating in complete defiance of federal law in Russia, as Google is refusing to comply with court orders there. As a long time employee, Ray, you are complicit in all of Google's incredibly terrible behavior, even if you aren't directly responsible for it.

If Google starts behaving itself, those of us following the news will listen and respond accordingly. Just as many have softened their take on Microsoft, as they've started making more consumer-friendly decisions. (Though there's some areas they still have a long way to go as well.)

[cromwellian]

Buying into the weakest conspiracies of Julian Assange is not being a "straight shooter". You took Google to task over their patent pledge and demanded they release all of their patents unconditionally, but give Microsoft a pass on highly trollish and litigious behavior.

You also don't mention that some of the things Google (and Facebook and Twitter) are not complying with concern Russian government attempts to persecute bloggers. Google was also not "compliant" with Beijing's demands for censorship and in 2010, pulled out of the country entirely, giving up billions of dollars in revenue and letting Baidu completely take over.

You say you're not a "hater", but you post almost exclusively on this subject, not just on HN, but on your other social network accounts. My facebook feed is pretty much 100% on bad stuff about Trump these days, and it would be completely accurate to characterize me as a Trump hater.

And for the record, people are pretty vocal internally about fixing product excellence and customer support issues. One of the chief reasons why complaining on HN works, is that so many Googlers care about this issue and are dismayed to see what should be customer support issues on HN. Righting a ship with several billion users is going to take time. Microsoft and Apple has 3+ decades of experience organically growing their consumer support culture.

[bit_logic]

Not sure why this is downvoted, it's mostly true. At this point, getting an offer from Google has nothing to do with engineer skill. Only one thing matters, spending time studying algorithms/data structures and being able to quickly pattern match it to random problems. It's just like cramming for a final exam in college. Massive amount of info pushed into short-term memory and then after finals week, flushed out. Has nothing to do with your skill or experience as an engineer.

If I saw a resume and it had Google on it, it doesn't really tell me much other than they played the tech interview game well. It would actually be a signal that I should not interview them like the way Google and others do because they know how to do optimized studying for it. Instead, some other interview method should be used to find out if they're actually a good engineer instead of just good at studying.

[cromwellian]

I'd say getting an offer from Google means nothing, but successfully working there for a few years at level 5 or above, does count for something. If you are recruiting for a startup, as my wife's recently did, the difference between the Xooglers she hired and non-Xooglers in terms of productivity and code quality was large.

This would likewise apply to seasoned ex-Facebook, Twitter, Square, Amazon, etc engineers. These are likely people who had to work with teams on reliable complex systems that serve a big audience. It won't matter for the prototype you use to get seed funding, but I'd argue it matters for the eventual rewrite.

[goldsborough]

Yes and no. Interviewing is definitely something you can become good at by practice (I can confirm). But I can tell you that studying algorithms and data structures for interviews (which I would not have done otherwise) has made me a much better engineer and I've taken a huge amount of knowledge from it that I use very often. So it's more like one of those exams that taught you a lot, even if you don't remember everything after a year :)

[kriro]

Well this particular intern who wrote the post was found due to things he had build/done. So I'd say in this case it does matter. I'd also say that a Google offer means more than being able to play the recruiting game because Google actively rethinks their recruiting process and tries to be data driven.

[home_boi]

almost every other good tech company interviews using the same types of questions

[ocdtrekkie]

Downvotes are Google employees defending their employer or self-esteem. I expected them when I posted my comment.

[serge2k]

The pay, company reputation (as a good employer AND top place technically), appearance on a resume, possibility of working on something cool, and actually managing to get through their interview is always going to appeal to people.

I'd work at google if I got an offer, because why not. I know it's a big company and everything, oh well.

I'd settle for passing the interview though. Don't like failing. :P

[coldcode]

I have 35 years of programming experience in many varied things (and currently iOS Swift). The changes of Google hiring me is 0. The chances of Google hiring a bright young guy willing to stay at work 14 hours a day I expect is pretty high.

[wsh91]

Respectfully, I don't know anyone here who works 14 hours a day. Anyone. And two of my teammates are more than twice my age (and I'm 25).

Don't get so down on yourself. :) The chances of Google hiring you are zero if you don't apply, but if you do, they're definitely positive.

[DesiLurker]

same here, 15 years of solid experience in a bunch of startups & many successful projects from scratch but all they seem to care about is warm bodies that can solve their weird interview puzzles. nothing from core expertise area at all.

[patrickxdaniel]

Well said

[brian-armstrong]

If you want to work there, then you should just apply. You never know

[rybosome]

I genuinely believed that I wasn't intelligent or confident enough to pass a Google interview. When a Google recruiter contacted me several years ago, my wife encouraged me to reply even though I liked the startup for which I was working and didn't think I'd make it. I prepped aggressively, got very lucky, and now I've been at Google for over 3 years.

This is a truly wonderful place to work; if you are interested in being here, I'd encourage you to apply in spite of your self doubt. :)

[nedsma]

I suggest you read The Python Paradox (http://paulgraham.com/pypar.html), if you haven't already. It's not that your projects are simple, stupid, don't require skills (I believe it's actually quite the opposite), it's that your current skillset/projects aren't that exciting/sought after in the SV.

[rampage101]

Python has come a long way since 2004 when it was not used much in industry. Now it's the top language for data science, along with some good web frameworks such as Flask/Django. Although, I'm pleased to see that Python was thought of highly then.