[lambdasquirrel]

I'm just going to cut right through this from the start.

Unlike most of my tech friends, I actually have tried to reconnect outside our privileged circles (and if you don't think that's what they are, you're kidding yourself). And you know what I found? A lot of echoes of the personal past.

Lets face it. A lot of techies — engineers specifically — are who they are because they were socially rejected in younger years. And you know what? When you try to reconnect with normal people, you will find that the whole popularity complex never really ended. The difference now is that you are economically on-top with all the abuses that that tempts.

Are you prepared to be othered and ostracized again? Because that's what's going to likely to happen. But I think you will find that the ordinary people have dignity too, and that there is validity to many other paths that don't go through the worldview of science and technology. And yes, it will lend credence to those "feels" things, like the Facebook timeline disaster mentioned in the article.

Just don't expect any fairness or warm, loving reconciliation is all I'm saying. This isn't some feel-good Hollywood movie. Don't expect as the hippies say that we are all one people, veda-this, spirituality that, blah blah blah, because we are quite frankly not.

But that doesn't diminish the importance of bridging the empathy gap, especially if you want to design and build things for other people, including yourselves.

[cableshaft]

I don't know, as you get older you find more things you can bond with the people that used to ostracize you in the Lord of the Flies microcosm that was Junior High/High School.

Work, bills, health and fitness, homes, kids, pets, where we want to go on vacation, hell I watch about three sports games a year and that seems to be enough to bond over sports, even.

I don't really have a problem getting along with people I would have never talked to in high school because as an adult I now have a lot more similar experiences I can talk with them about.

And now that technology is literally everywhere and used by pretty much everyone nowadays, as long as I dumb that down a bit I can discuss that with them too.

[noir-york]

I was the first in my (working class) family to go to university, followed by my younger siblings. We may not now move in the same circles as the other children of the neighbours on our street, but we sure don't patronize them, think them any less, or dismiss their and so many other people's genuine concerns be it immigration, or crime, or job security. Unlike certain media and others who claim to be left-wing in the outlook, but may as well be from a different planet.

No one is asking anyone to hang out or connect with "normal" people, but we can surely start with the generally valid assumption that most people act in good faith and not dismissing anyone as being "deplorable" or any of the -isms.

[rhodri]

> we sure don't patronize them, think them any less, or dismiss their and so many other people's genuine concerns be it immigration, or crime, or job security

great! perhaps you have been raised well and have managed to recover from emotional trauma you may have experienced in life so far. some people unfortunately have not been so lucky.

[noir-york]

Yes, we were lucky and raised well.

> have managed to recover from emotional trauma

????

[rhodri]

> you may have experienced

no amount of good parenting can protect us from real badness

[fmatthew5876]

So what if you got socially rejected in younger years? That's no excuse for anything and it's time to grow up. Social skills are just that.. a skill. Skills can be acquired through training and practice. I know because I went through all of this personally. A lot of nerds never try because they are too scared of other people and have low self esteem. Social value is an illusion, one you can craft if you know how. The first step is stop being selfishly always inside your own head and actually listen to the other person.

Not all of us were naturals or were taught this by our parents. But now we are adults and there are a lot of resources out there about social skills in work, life, and dating. Try it, and you and your new beautiful wife might find your career success going beyond anything you could have imagined. Not because you became a better programmer, but because you made connections and knew the right people.

[mercer]

> I know because I went through all of this personally.

Apologies for a bit of a rant. It's not targeted at you specifically, but the above statement prompted it.

I'd just like to say that some of the most un-empathic people I know use such statements as an excuse to judge others rather than understand them (let alone empathize).

I've met more than once person who worked themselves up from poverty and because they could, everyone can and should, and those who don't are clearly just not trying hard enough.

The same goes for quite a few people who grew up with shitty parents, mental health issues, religion, and so on.

Now to some degree I get that; plenty of people are just excited about their solution to their problem and just mistakenly believe that if only others would do as they did, they'd be happier. In my church-going years we called these people 'recent converts'.

But quite often there's more than just a little condescension to it, and I really, really dislike that.

I've been privileged in many ways, and I try to be aware of that. But I've also had it hard in many ways, and the most hurtful and unproductive comments were of the 'just do <x>, it worked for me' or even the usually-only-implied "you're just not trying hard enough" variety.

These kinds of statements were particularly painful if the person who said them actually had experienced similar problems, because it would give their words more weight, more legitimacy, and it would make my problem something to feel ashamed about because clearly I'm just not trying hard enough; surely they would know.

The thing is, even if it's true, it doesn't help other than make those who make these statements feel good about themselves.

I just wanted to say that. I do agree with the gist of you comment. Learning social skills has been extremely beneficial to me, and much of that didn't come naturally! And I wish there was a class for that for those who somehow haven't learned these things, because that sucks.

[lopatin]

Clearly trying to "reconnect" with people you never got along with in the first place wouldn't ever work. But I wonder if you'd have the same problems if you didn't consider yourself a different breed than non tech folk.

[rhodri]

nicely written. reconciliation is not like the movies, it requires from us steadfastness and courage in the face of criticism and outright character assasination.

as engineers we spend a lot of time dismissing the ethical or systemic consequences of our work in favour of concentrating on hard problems with deterministic solutions. humanity is more than that, reality is more than that.

there is real, legitimate anger, grief and confusion in the population. if we want to put technology to work for the people, we need to listen to them (us) in all their (our) messy, contradictory beauty/ugliness/realness.

grieving is a process that starts with denial and ends with acceptance.

[SomeStupidPoint]

I don't expect any fairness or warmth from those people, and I still find many of the same ones pretty thoughtless and boring.

All the same, I try to sprinkle a little more warmth and kindness on what I do now than they did then, or likely would now were our positions of influence reversed.

Not because it's fair, not because they really deserve it, not even abstract reasons like their kids shouldnt suffer for them being dicks in high school, but because I want to be in a world that errs on being nicer than it should. I want to fundamentally break the rules we grew up by, and we're genuinely on the cusp of technology enabling that.

And at the end of the day, I simply have more power than them, so we'll live a little more how I want and a little less in their Darwinian shithole.