[mamon]

>> Saving a Life is more important than theoretical slippery slopes.

This is a very sad thing, assuming that a life itself is the most valuable thing in the world.

The truth is: if you value your life more than your freedom then sooner or later you'll be made slave.

[alanwatts]

>I had reasoned this out in my mind; there was one of two things I had a right to, liberty, or death; if I could not have one, I would have the other; for no man should take me alive;

-Harriet Tubman

[davemel37]

I couldn't disagree more.

Perhaps if I experienced slavery, I would prefer death, but from where I sit now, I would rather be alive than dead, even if it meant not being free.

I can't imagine what my grandparents went through in concentration camps, but it seems to me that they did everything they could to survive...and I am grateful for that, otherwise, I wouldn't be here today!

[Myrmornis]

Mentioning your grandparents is irrelevant. We don't dislike Israel because it is Jewish or because we have no sympathy for what happened to Jews in the past. We dislike it because it is a nation (nothing to do with jewishness or any religion; a political entity) of educated people with western outlooks and lifestyles which fails spectacularly (they all do, but even more than most) to live up to the moral standards we expect of such nations.

[davemel37]

Huh?

I mentioned my grandparents in the context of freedom vs. dying...a very relevant point.

I wasnt talking about Israel in that comment nor did I invoke Judaism or the holocaust in its defense anywhere else.

However, considering how you went on the defensive to a point that wasnt relevant at all (this post isnt about liking Israel, it is about censorship and the limits of free speech)...

It really does beg the question if you dislike Israel for reasons other than the moral standards to invoke from your high horse...I dont know you so I have no opinions about your own prejudices, but I think you should take a hard look in the mirror...if only to be truthful to yourself.

[vidoc]

> It really does beg the question if you dislike Israel for reasons other than the moral standards to invoke from your high horse...I dont know you so I have no opinions about your own prejudices, but I think you should take a hard look in the mirror...if only to be truthful to yourself.

Talk about slippery slope! Pulling the ideological taser the way you did is not just libelous, it is intellectually dishonest.

[davemel37]

I just re-read this thread and realized there was a miscommunication.

My comment was intended to be a real world example of someone choosing life in slavery over dying in response to the idea of "give me liberty or give me death"...

I reread my comment and can see how someone might misinterpret it as invoking the holocaust to defend the state of Israel. That was never my intention and does not reflect my viewpoints on Israel. I dont believe the holocaust or antisemitism has anything to do with the right of the state of Israel to exist.

I do however believe in Good and Evil.

[davemel37]

Huh? All I said is take an honest look at why he felt the need to get defensive.

I am of course perplexed how you perceived that as libel, dishonest, and a slippery slope.

If you knew me, you would know that I was withholding judgement, just encouraging honest introspection...something I try to do constantly.

[davemel37]

I guess people are raised on different value systems (or develop them on their own.)

My value system puts human life above all else.

[pdeuchler]

It is an indisputable, historical fact that when you prioritize safety over human rights you will end up with an order of magnitude greater loss of life.

The only possible way to value and protect human life is to value and protect human rights, and that includes free speech. The minute you subsume those for safety (or as you put it, "human life", but we've also heard "for the kids", "terrorism", "immigrants", "communists", "monarchists", etc. etc.) you have not only given up your rights, but your life to the powers that be. And those powers do not have your best interests in mind.

These things are not separate, please do not turn this into a false dichotomy. We must protect both human rights and human life, but only by the acquiescence of our rights may they take our lives.

[davemel37]

I am not a historian nor am I interested in an ethical debate. From my vantage point...censoring Facebook posts that incite violence(many of which are linked to actual violence), is a no brainer over the alternative of being afraid of Facebook or Israel censoring that content.

But, maybe I am just an evil person sacrificing the rights of the masses...