[thr303808]

He could also take drugs tomorrow and stop the next day. Us addicts seemingly think of relapsing as something that happens to you, like if you're walking down the street and fall into a manhole. But you're not powerless, it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy. It'll take at least weeks of continued use to get addicted again (that's for opioids, amphetamines are not addictive in that way.) Then again, it's never enough to just do it once as you want to be on the drug forever. This is why it's easy to continue using again, but it's also possible to stop.

EDIT To clarify: I'm not condoning relapsing, I only want people to know that all hope is not lost if you made the decision to use again. I'm also not saying that it will be easy to stop again, just that it's going to be easier than you think.

[daveguy]

Downvoted. Addiction is powerful and the false belief that you can "just dabble" is what causes a lot of relapse. It is a common excuse/justification for people during a relpse.

If you are speaking this way from a personal perspective you should take the resumption of addictive behavior seriously and consider getting help.

Flippant attitude toward relapse is not a good attitude for someone who wants to stay clean.

[thr303808]

Good friends of mine died from walking into a relapse, I don't take it lightly at all. Relapses are so common it's dangerous to tell people all is lost if they use just one more time.

Personally I've been clean for years, but what saved me was getting back into work so that I had something to occupy my time. It's easier to drop the tin foil when you have work and responsibilities in the morning.

[rosser]

> It'll take at least weeks of continued use to get addicted again...

Maybe that's your experience, and maybe it's some other people's too, but to offer this as a blanket truth is not merely wrong, but actively dangerous.

[darpa_escapee]

> It'll take at least weeks of continued use to get addicted again

False. Psychological addiction isn't physical addiction and is arguably exactly the kind of addiction that brings an addict to use after an extended period of sobriety.

This is also inaccurate w/r/t opioids and benzodiazepines. Each time you withdraw, become dependent and withdraw from opioids the length and amount of use needed to induce withdrawals is lessened. Using twice in a period of three days is enough to trigger withdrawals after kicking multiple times.

After being heavily dependent on benzodiazepines or alcohol and withdrawing, subsequent use can induce a phenomenon called kindling[0]. A week, a weekend binge, or one night of drinking might be enough to trigger withdrawal symptoms. One dose of a benzodiazepine can be enough to trigger withdrawal after being heavily dependent.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative-hypnotic_wi...

[thr303808]

You're right, using twice in three days is enough, but it doesn't move you back to start.

The withdrawals are much lighter compared to what they will be in weeks, or months. Often the withdrawals can be over the next day! So if you have found yourself relapsing, and think that any control over your own actions has vanished overnight? You're wrong! But that's what many actually seem to believe.

Edit: I'd do almost anything to avoid going into full on withdrawal, so I guess I don't mean literal control, but feeling powerless. This reply does not consider benzo, I consider that en even much more dangerous drug for those seriously addicted to it.

[mercer]

It's what many have seen happen again and again, and it's what many have experienced themselves.

I understand what you're trying to do here, and you're not wrong. It's rather more about context and how this works in reality.

Your perspective is correct, in that seeing a relapse as a complete failure can actually make it worse. You're right that the best mindset is to get up again, remember that whatever has been accomplished is not lost at all, deal with minor withdrawal, and get back on the horse (or wagon, I guess).

But the perspective of others here is also correct. One of the most common causes of relapse is thinking 'I can handle it now', is moderation, is forgetting the difficulties and struggles of quitting, forgetting the weeks, months or years lost to continuously failed 'moderation', and taking for granted the positive things that happened since quitting.

To someone who is 'clean', it is absolutely disastrous to think that a relapse is not very dangerous. Because the mind wants excuses to indulge again, and even the tiniest thought that this can be possible without potentially a complete reversion to an earlier situation can be enough of an excuse.

But to someone who just relapsed your message is probably very valuable. I think most people here would agree with that.

The thing is, the number of people around who need to hear that a relapse should scare the living crap out of them is almost guaranteed to be much higher than the number of people who need to hear that it's not the end of the world.

Before relapsing, not relapsing is 100% the correct advice. After relapsing, your message might or might not help. I've experienced many situations where no approach helped after a relapse other than, well, waiting and hoping.

And that's why I think people disagree so strongly. Not because you're wrong, but because your statements, in practice, can be harmful to people reading them.

[darpa_escapee]

> So if you have found yourself relapsing, and think that any control over your own actions has vanished overnight?

No one in this thread is claiming this and I certainly am not.

If your frame of mind, attitude and inclination have shifted so far from what 'makes sense', i.e. staying sober after proving that you're incapable of using without losing control, then pretending it isn't a big deal to use once isn't helpful. It is detrimental. An addict's mind will want to find any excuse to minimize away the problems of using, and if you're at the point where you've willingly used once, you've already started going down that rabbit hole.

> I'd do almost anything to avoid going into full on withdrawal

So would a lot of people. The best way to avoid going through withdrawals after using is to keep on using, hence why a relapse is a problem.

[nostalgiac]

https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_y...

Watch this and see if you still think the same way.

[taneq]

I think this kind of defines the line between an addict and a user, doesn't it? If you're an addict, you can't just 'take it or leave it', or 'just stop'.

[mirimir]

Pretty much. Or rather, if you can't just take it or leave it, you're an addict. I was addicted to nicotine for decades. I had very little willpower about not having another cigarette. It took years to really stop, to stop relapsing.

[thr303808]

It may be that the mechanisms of addiction for meth/amphetamines, gambling, smoking etc is different from opioids, as I could to loads of the first, without ever having trouble stopping (just slept for a few days), while some of my friends had addictive behavior. It puzzled me, so maybe it truly is more difficult when relapsing on those.

After going through opiate withdrawals, I found quitting smoking rather pleasant in comparison. It's really not a ride you wish to take again.

[mirimir]

Right, the main symptoms of nicotine withdrawal are nervousness and anxiety. I've also been addicted to diazepam, and that was similar, but more intense. I gather that symptoms of opiate withdrawal can be extremely unpleasant. I've had a few small tastes of that, after overusing oxycodone (and diazepam) for back pain. I'd never want to experience the real thing.

I've also done lots of amphetamines and cocaine, and never felt like I was getting addicted. Maybe there's a genetic component.

[theparanoid]

For me, alcohol was harder physically and harder to stop.