[iagooar]

I took a credit once, for buying a car, and will never do it again.

Although I never had problems with paying the money back, I was paying a lot more money back to the bank, so when I finished paying the credit off, the car was worth half of the price I bought it, almost having paid double the price because of the credit interests.

But the worst part was that it didn't feel right.

So now my policy is to never buy anything with money that I don't have (yet). It makes you feel so much better, you feel a truly free person. I don't own my apartment, true, and the money I spend each month on rent could bring me closer to owning one, but I just don't see the point of it. But buying stuff for money you actually have makes your decisions so much better and closer to what you can really afford.

Also, there is another component to buying stuff with money you actually have. Recently, I decided to buy a scooter. Not a big "deal", but I didn't want to just spend any savings on it that I have so far, so I put aside money from some freelancing outside my daily job, sold some unused furniture and electronics, and only had to pay around 25% of the price of the scooter from my account. It felt so good, it felt like I deserved it, because I planned for it in advance and didn't have to "compromise" my savings. On the other hand, when I took the loan for the car, I felt bad, I almost felt miserable, as if I was doing something wrong. I can't imagine buying a house for someone else's money. You must feel like a slave.

[icebraining]

Have you considered that your personal feelings are preventing you from taking what can actually be a good economical decision?

For example, imagine you had taken a loan to buy the scooter, then used the money put aside to pay the installments instead. You might have paid somewhat more for the scooter, but on the other hand, you could actually own the scooter earlier, which might even save you money in the end (for example, if you drove a car instead and therefore spent more in gas and such).

Buying a house is similar; the "point" is that you end up saving money, since you stop paying for it, but never stop paying rent. Also, there are incentives (such as tax breaks) that make it cheaper still.

Does it mean that you have an extra obligation "tying" you? Sure. But that doesn't mean it's always a bad choice.

[ams6110]

You can make some argument for paying for something over time if you are going to use it over time. A house, or a car, could fall into that category. However a big difference is that a house is an asset which normally appreciates in value, while a car is an expense which depreciates. Buying something on credit that will depreciate (or worse, is a consumable) is something to be very cautious about.

[carlosnunez]

Here's the biggest reason why I don't mind taking out a loan on a car, one of the most aggressive and most expensive depreciating assets out there:

Comfort. Immense comfort.

I spend a lot of time in my car. I enjoy the car that I have now (a 2012 Honda Accord EX-L), but the only reason why I didn't take out a lease on something more expensive (like a 535i or an E-class) is because we're planning to move very soon and driving a luxury car in NYC makes no damn sense unless you are flush with money and can afford the inevitable body work.

When I went to Austin a few months ago, I decided to rent a BMW Z4. It was amazing. An absolute pleasure to drive. It wasn't the speed that did it in for me, though. It was the sheer comfort of everything.

Volume knobs? They're RIGHT THERE. You don't even need to move your forearm.

The seats? Plushy and comfortable (unlike my Accord; everything is great, but those seats are terrible).

Cruise control that actually works on downhills and actually slows down? Not a problem.

Me paying a few hundred dollars per month to not drive something much cheaper (and, likely, not as nice/comfortable) doesn't bother me at all. It's a debt, and debt sucks, but driving a low-grade econobox for a few years while I save up for something that will be worth 30% less than what I bought it for the minute I drive it out is much worse (for me).

(Same goes for my future house or apartment.)

That being said, building up my emergency spend and clearing up some debt that I've amassed is next on my priority list after moving.

[switch007]

BMW fan here! (To an extent). BMWs have their flaws (buy a 15+ year old E46, I dare you), but damn, it feels much more like they thought things through. Nothing in the interior of my E46 annoyed me. I've driven the F30 as hire cars many times and love it. However, I drove a 2015 Mercedes E-class for 3 days last week...:

- The parking brake is a PEDAL and the release is a totally separate lever.

- The button to disable auto start-stop is labelled "Eco" rather than a more standard VW/BMW "A" icon in a circular arrow.

- The gear selector is a weird stalk (drive is down, reverse is up, and park is a separate button you push inwards?!).

- The cruise-control always stayed -1km below what is set.

- The gearbox mode selection cycle in the order: Eco->Sport->Manual, i.e. in eco, you need to cycle to get to manual rather than being able to select it directly. Also, flipping up a gear with the paddle DOESN'T put it in to manual mode.

- The cruise control stalk is complicated and had an LED, which is out of view.

- No button on steering wheel to directly change radio station.

- You need to dig the brake pedal to enable the auto-hold.

- To wash the windscreen, you need to push inwards a small button on a stalk to the second level! The first level activates the wipers without water. I dry-wiped the windscreen a few times before realising.

But apart from all that, it was a nice drive.

[jacquesm]

> The parking brake is a PEDAL and the release is a totally separate lever.

That has two functions in one go: first of all it stops your potentially deranged passengers from pulling on the handbrake and second it allows for much more force to be applied to the pedal than you could ever achieve while pulling on a lever. This means that if you need the parking brake for it's backup emergency brake function it will likely have a lot more effect.

> The gear selector is a weird stalk (drive is down, reverse is up, and park is a separate button you push inwards?!).

Gear selector is a matter of taste, it's actually the same as it would be in some other EU cars (and even some ancient ones, the (original) DS for instance). The reason why park is separate is so when you reverse and you still have a little bit of speed you don't accidentally lock the wheels.

> Cruise control setting being 1 km below what you set is

Similar to the speedometer erring on the side of caution. In case of doubt, check with a GPS and adjust accordingly if you really feel like riding that fine line between a fine and a freebie.

> No button on steering wheel to directly change radio station.

First world problems ;)

> To wash the windscreen, you need to push inwards a small button on a stalk to the second level! The first level activates the wipers without water. I dry-wiped the windscreen a few times before realising.

RTM :)

[switch007]

Some valid points, but I was mostly commenting in the context of it being a rental and expecting a car to be like other cars.

> ...the same as it would be in some other EU cars

"some" (which, out of interest)?. Not anywhere near being a majority e.g. BMW, Audi, Ford, VW

> Similar to the speedometer erring on the side of caution.

I can do that. I can set it to 119 instead of 120. Leave me in control (OK, it's the cruise control feature, but still...)

Again, the parking pedal is unique(?) to Mercedes. Completely different to expected location and behaviour to most other cars.

[jacquesm]

The Citroen DS had both the parking brake and the gear shift in that exact configuration and this was a very common configuration in the past.

Here is a picture of the gear shift lever:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c3/56/58/c356581ab...

That's a half-automatic gear box, so gears but no clutch! (Not bad for the early 60's, as well as hydraulic suspension, power steering and headlights that point where you're driving).

I've even seen it on some American cars. Eventually the shifter for automatics moved to the transmission tunnel (if you had one) as well but it wasn't always so.

I suspect the re-occurrence of this has to do with the mid console in high end cars now more and more occupied with electronics and infotainment rather than the drive train and associated levers.

[vldx]

Hallo, also kind of BMW fan here; driving 12 year old E39.

It's one of the main selling points of BMW that everything is designed and engineered towards the driver - from the controls to the essence of the driving experience. It's something which is inherited in every successive model.

I can afford buying any of the new models, but rationally can't see what I'll get additionally, besides the ego boost and the quickly fading dopamine kick.

Maybe more efficiency and reliability?

Part of what pleases me is that you get the same level of comfort and experience for so little.

[teddyh]

“Let’s suppose you want the latest iPad. You want it because it is convenient to be able to look at pictures and websites and books and play music around the house. Sure, you already have other computers that do those things, but the iPad is special because it lets you do them while holding it in one hand, sitting on the couch.

Wow, that couch is pretty convenient too, isn’t it? It is comfortable, enjoyable, convenient, and joyful to sit and lie on your couch. In fact, wouldn’t it be best to just lie on that couch all day? Forever? Yeah! Maybe you could even hook it up with a catheter and a bedpan, and a friend or robot could bring you all your food on the couch too. With each release, the latest iPad could be delivered to you, and you’d have the most convenient and comfortable and effort-free life ever.”

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-w...

[carlosnunez]

I too have read Mustache. His articles are good, but his ideology has always been achieving financial independence from complete (or mostly complete) detachment from materialistic wants. Money (or FI) isn't liberating when all I can do is ride my bike from place to place while always worrying about the time I'll be home since I'll almost never eat out according to his paradigm...

[teddyh]

I disagree. If you haven’t been cured of spending all your money (or, as you say, “detachment from materialistic wants”), you won’t be able to save any of it.

Also, having money by saving it is not simply sitting at home doing nothing; it’s about feeling secure:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/11/11/get-rich-with-the-...

[rokhayakebe]

Most cars are within the same price range for a lease: honda accord $200, infinity Q50 $300, bmw 3 series $350, mercedes C Class $350, porsche boxter $600, audi A4 $300, hyundai sonata $200, etc...

[carlosnunez]

Yeah...I wish I knew that when I financed my Accord. It just so happens that my Dad is paying only ~$150/mo more on his loan for his 2011 535i than I am for my 2012 Accord EX-L (insurance included in both cases). Sure, his 535i had 35k miles on it (mine only had 6.5k), but his car is SUCH a nice drive and has COMPLETE coverage for 4 years, so any work that he needs to have done on it will more than likely be covered.

If I had known that, I probably would've considered getting a slightly older 335i instead. That said, I don't regret my decision. I love our car (except for the driver's seat...boy is it bad), and owning a nice car here in NYC is a fool's errand unless you don't mind paying tons on body/wheel work.

[tomohawk]

Borrowing money for a depreciating asset doesn't make much sense in any case. It's not just the extra cost, but additional exposure to risk. Life sometimes throws curve balls, and being leveraged can make the consequences much steeper.