[delan]

If you only look within a given occupation, sure, the disparity isn’t as wide, but that fails to answer some important questions: why do the choices that women (or any given group) make result in them being paid less overall? Should they essentially be punished for those choices, particularly when you consider the power that money buys? Are some of the occupations that are dominated by women undervalued and underpaid, such as teaching and nursing? Consider watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV9zBAotFeo

[losteric]

> why do the choices that women (or any given group) make result in them being paid less overall?

If you pick a low-valued career, you will probably be paid less. No need to bring in gender here... movers are mostly men, and they're also low-value.

> Should they essentially be punished for those choices, particularly when you consider the power that money buys?

It's not punishment. They willingly give up the power of money by picking a career that earns less. If someone wants the power of money, pick a different career. Again, gender doesn't matter.

> Are some of the occupations that are dominated by women undervalued and underpaid, such as teaching and nursing?

Yes, but it has nothing to do with the dominating gender. Those fields are just under appreciated... it's a societal problem if we under value those professions, but (again) gender doesn't matter. Male nurses suffer the same problem.

It seem what you should be asking is: Are women inherently biased to pick these nurturing roles, and is this because of societal or biological pressures? If it's biological, is society responsible for correcting the economic imbalance by effectively subsidizing those roles? Should we accept that some careers are valued less, make this very obvious during formative years (highschool/college), encourage rational decision making, and accept any natural gender imbalances that result?

[nommm-nommm]

>It has nothing to do with the dominating gender.

If ${group} is valued less in society then it isn't a stretch that ${activities group does} becomes less valued in society.

Many here are quick to point out that weed was outlawed because it was an activity that minorities enjoyed.

I'm not saying that this is the case (idk) but its not an outlandish idea.

[gozur88]

>If ${group} is valued less in society then it isn't a stretch that ${activities group does} becomes less valued in society.

We don't pay people based on how we "value" them. Labor is a market like any other.

[pawn]

"should they essentially be punished for those choices"

Certain jobs are worth less than other jobs. Can we agree on this? I think it's reasonable that college education and experience allow me to earn more than someone working a job which requires neither.

[stray]

Choosing work that is paid less in not being punished for your choices -- that's silly -- it's the obvious and expected result of having made that choice.

Nurses btw, make very good money.

Looking at a list of male-dominated fields just now, I noticed that they're all dangerous occupations: Construction, Logging, Mining, Quarrying, and Oil and Gas Extraction.

Should they essentially be punished for those choices by bringing safer jobs' salaries to the same level?

[leereeves]

Who do you think might be "punishing" women for their career choices?

Do you think someone is purposely organizing the system so that women are paid less?

[mbrock]

Someone is organizing the system to pay the lowest possible wages. This someone operates within deeply entrenched structures of power. Someone also didn't let women vote until 1920 in the US... 1959 in Switzerland. And someone made sure that inheritance customs were patrilineal... someone admired extremely patriarchal societies like the old Roman and Greek... someone treated women as property... someone kept women out of the universities... someone kept them out of the guilds and professions... who is this guy?

[leereeves]

> Someone is organizing the system to pay the lowest possible wages.

For everyone.

The rest of your comment seems to be about ancient history - what did you mean to say about society today?

[mbrock]

Society today is a product of history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women%27s_rights_(...

That's the long story of the struggle for justice for women.

You seemed to say that gender injustice could only be perpetrated by some shadowy caricature "someone." I'm saying there is such a someone: the patriarchy.

[leereeves]

And you think the "patriarchy" is paying women as little as possible, but not men?

I think the people who make such decisions pay everyone as little as possible.

[mbrock]

So then we're talking about the gender dynamics of negotiation.

http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/lean-out-th...

[hasenj]

> why do the choices that women (or any given group) make result in them being paid less overall?

That's begging the question.

It's also a loaded question.

[microcolonel]

That's not for anyone else to decide.

If I make the decision to take up painting; my economic worth will decrease. That's personal.

I, as somebody who aspires to be a father some day, will try to make it worthwhile for mom; but ultimately her lifetime financial earnings will be less with kids, and that's something she will decide.

As far as occupations which are "underpaid", that's up to the employees. Nurses are paid what they value their work at, if they don't want to work for that money, they don't have to. Because nurses don't mind working for what they're currently paid, they are paid that much. If they were paid less, fewer of them would do the work.

[delan]

That a person would continue to work for a given rate does not imply that they don’t mind working for that rate. There are many reasons why one might continue. They may not be trained in another occupation. They may not have the money to choose to stop working in an effort to make a statement about their rate. They may even want to continue working despite their objections about how much they’re being paid.

[Lawtonfogle]

>Should they essentially be punished for those choices

Men are punished by working in more dangerous fields. They are literally killed for their choices and at a far worse rate than any income inequality, even of the most exaggerated reports.

But perhaps my biggest gripe over this whole issue is that I believe that had the occupational death rates for men and women been opposite what they are, we would be having radically different conversations about the issue.