[NicoJuicy]

The fascinating thing is, there's already Russian propaganda in that article's comments - called web brigades.

They just mention that there is no conflict between Russia and Ukraine, although Russia send unofficial armed troups to Ukrain :p, because they didn't allowed the coupe of "obama's" administration.

The problem is, America didn't send any troops to Ukrain, Russia did:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/1165...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades

[meric]

It isn't Obama's coup. It's Victoria Nuland and the Big Oil coup. Here's a video of Victoria Nuland of the Department of State claiming U.S. has spent $5 billion since 1991 to 'build democratic institutions' in Ukraine, at around 07:30. Take note of the sponsorship flags by Chevron and ExxonMobil in the background. Note how she uses the word 'invested'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y0y-JUsPTU#t=448

IMO that is evidence of past U.S. interference in Ukraine's political affairs.

Next time you pay for a Uber ride - remember the government has spent at least that much for every person in the U.S. to interfere in Ukraine politics, a country all the way up to the border of Russia.

Last time the reverse happened to the U.S, they tried to assassinate Fidel Castro, blockaded Cuba into poverty and invaded the country with 1500 soldiers and 8 B-26 bombers.

[ArkyBeagle]

Those "flags" just mean they sponsored whatever conference this is at. The video nor the other stuff doesn't say which conference it is.

It's funny how the US is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't in these cases. "Big oil" might or might not be even interested in how Ukraine/Russia works out, beyond the usual "can we do business there?" concerns. Isn't it simply that competitors to Russian control over Ukraine need partners offshore for oil operations?

I know people who have had to travel to Cote Ivorie to do work, and it's an uncomfortable thing to have to do. They have a number that can call if they need to be evacuated. Not that this has been executed, but it has come up in discussions with the customer there.

After all, we could just turn our backs and let Putin have whatever he wants.

When we look back historically at the 1953 Iran coup, that sure as heck was oil oriented, but it was the British government ultimately that requested CIA involvement. Nationalizing other people's oil assets has certain ... risks associated with it. This is at very least much more subtle than that.

[arca_vorago]

Oh yeah, its because theyre "damned if they do damned if they dont" all right. Like pushing a color revolution so you can coopt the powrr base is just a "oopsie well we might as well because wed be viewed as damned anyway!" Sort of thing. Does HN really buy this obvious shill propaganda?

[ArkyBeagle]

I don't buy "shill propaganda" because I watch a couple of metric tons of CSPAN every year. The big companies just sponsor these things blindly. It's all rather bland. They do it sort of blindly - and it's not exactly Riefenstahl. It's very grey-corporate boring.

I just meant "damned if you do; damned of you don't" to bring up the odd position Americans find themselves in four generations against the natural grain of American isolationism. The infamous American provincialism is well-won.

[alexro]

True, but americans are blind to this sort of 'non-democratic' truth.

[doomsells]

The US is vilified regardless of reality because they are so ridiculously dominant. Pretending that everyone is equally bad is only workable theoretically, in the real world bad systems die.

[arca_vorago]

Thats the most bassavkeards logic ive heard in a while. So the us is only bilified because of their dominance, but "in reality" bad systems die? Thats such bullshit, and obviously not true across the spanse of history. Do people actually think before they type?

[scottlocklin]

Of course, the US and Five Eyes are doing the same thing; they're just better at it. It's mind boggling how our media is consistently forgetting to notice that Crimea has been trying to get itself annexed by Russia since Ukraine and Russia become countries.

[meatysnapper]

Yeah, Eastern Ukraine (ethnic Russians) vs the rest have been at each other's throats for a while. This was the logical conclusion of years of discontent.

[duaneb]

If anything is clear, it's that the Crimea is a terrible place to live right now. It doesn't appear that there is a solid populist opinion--the conflict was obviously precipitated by Russian pressure.

[colinbartlett]

Just another reason I can't wait for iOS 9 content blockers. On Chrome desktop I use ShutUp to block all comments on the net except for whitelisted sites.

[sschueller]

The problem with that is you may eventually end up in a bubble that matches your believes and reality.

[duaneb]

Pick your battles. Online comments are probably not worth your energy.

[colinbartlett]

Fair point, though I tend to find whitelisting sites with commenting systems that allow down voting of trolls and hate speech to be an effective way to expose myself to alternative viewpoints while shielding myself from the vitriol.

[realusername]

I'm also being tired of the Russian propaganda. When you have a look on /r/worldnews or /r/news on Reddit, all you see is a fight between US propaganda and Russian propaganda, I don't even go there anymore, I just stay on /r/cooking and /r/science now, no propaganda there ! (and just go to /r/russia if you want to have some fun and see what I'm talking about).

[rurounijones]

Just looked at /r/russia and I am still not sure it isn't an elaborate parody sub...

[arca_vorago]

Absolute bullshit. Just as in Georgia in 08, the US/Nato/EU is working on isolating Russia in it's strategic choke points, and had boots on the ground instigating the Ukrainian "revolution", and while the Ukrainian people have plenty of valid issues that were being failed to be addressed, that doesn't change the fact that they have been manipulated into the position they're in. Primarily, the Kiev fascist clique taking over the power structures on the back of a semi-legitimate series of causes.

Now, if we want to have an honest and open intellectual discussion about the return to a tripolar world in which resource wars are around the corner and this is simply IMF/US/Nato setting up strategic position in the region, and Russia's response is a rational strategic one, let's have that conversation and debate, and we can get into whether we think it's the right move on our part or not, but lets not pretend like the propaganda is true (that is if the truth is truly what you are interested in. Your comment doesn't indicate it is, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just consider you misinformed.)

Ukraine is a perfect modern example of the economic hitmen sending in the jackals, as described by John Perkins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_portrayal_of_the_Ukraini...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/natos-perilous-gambit/5463315

http://newcoldwar.org/the-policy-of-the-u-s-and-eu-in-the-uk...

Bonus for anyone who has gotten this far: Operation Gladio (B)

edit: downvoted without discussion, why am I not surprised.

[tiatia]

"The problem is, America didn't send any troops to Ukrain, Russia did" Well, this is open to debate. Russia DID sent troops to Crimea but was legally and contractual allowed to do so.

Counter question: Why are armed US soldiers flying to Ukraine? Dear Hunting?

http://www.krone.at/Oesterreich/Bewaffnete_US-Soldaten_in_Wi...

[rjbwork]

I didn't realize it was legal to send troops into non-contiguous territory with the intention of annexation. Can you cite the law or contract that allows that? I've never heard this theory proposed before.

[tiatia]

Well, Russia had all the rights to have troops in Crimea (a former part of Russia by the way) based on contractual agreements with Ukraine - they rented military bases there. So what you exactly saying?

1. Russia EXCEEDED the amount of troops that it was allowed to have there? I never heard this claim before. 2. That the presence of the Russian troops changed the referendum in any kind? I never heard this too. In fact, this it is the reason why nobody requests a second ballot - the result would be the same. 3. That it is illegal to secede. Secession have happened before (think Yugoslavia, think Czechoslovakia), they will happen in the future.

Please clarify your point and cite laws that Russia broke.

[EugeneOZ]

Are you and kidding? Soldiers occupied airports and military bases, that's how Crimea was annexed. Don't put that bullshit please.

[tiatia]

Which military bases were occupied? Seriously.

[tiatia]

Well, I assume that a downvote was the answer.

But considering your lack of an answer I assume you were just bullshitting.