EDIT: Just a bit more context. Neil Young has been trying to sell an 'audiophile' grade audio player. This post seems like nothing more than trying to stealthily promote the supposed virtues of his own product.
I'm sorry but what an utter absolute load of crap. Especially given this:
Indeed. The part I find most ridiculous is that he is pushing a portable music player on the strength of its high bitrate digital source.
The key thing to realize is that there are a lot of pieces in this signal path (bits to brain). The best you can do is start with the highest quality source possible, and then focus on minimizing the reduction in quality which happens at each step past that.
His intentions are good with choosing a high quality source. However, the idea that a portable music player is going to have a good enough DAC, good enough analog amplification / filtering, that the user will select good enough headphones, and will be listening in a low enough noise-floor environment (sitting absolutely still in a dead room with the A/C turned off) to be able to come anywhere close to hearing the difference made by that high quality source is laughable.
Is it possible to detect the difference between 320kbps streaming and 192kHz/24bit lossless? Sure, you'd see it on an oscilloscope. But could you hear it through $50 ear buds while walking down the street?
One way to reason about sound quality is to mentally model it as two sounds mixed together: a loud, perfect signal, and a much quieter distortion signal. For humans, loud sounds mask quieter sounds, and if the amplitude difference is great enough, you simply can't perceive the quieter sound at all.
Now, take that one step futher: model the sound as a loud, perfect signal mixed with five or six small distortion signals (A, B, C, D, etc, each representing a step in the path from bits to brain). Neil's player reduces distortion signal A by a tiny fraction. Great! But that reduction is only perpectible if it isn't swamped by distortion signals B, C, D, E, and the noise floor created by whatever environment you happen to be sitting in (ultimately, "is this reduction in distortion swamped by the noise floor created by the sound of blood rushing through the veins in my ears?")
The sad part is that his PR has probably achieved what they wanted to. I mean, I'm on here writing a comment about the Pono Player and talking about it with friends. So yeah....
Spotify, Google Play Music, and Rdio all stream at 320kbps MP3 or OGG, and Apple Music streams at 256kbps AAC (which is approximately the same quality as 320kbps MP3). [0][1]
Yet, the vast majority of people cannot tell the difference between 256kbps MP3 and lossless, let alone between 320kbps MP3 and lossless (tested many times, for example: [2]). I'm not sure Neil has much of an argument to make here when it comes to audio quality, particularly for the use case of casual listening.
Also, if you're really that concerned about audio quality, you should be campaigning against earbuds. For many, many people it doesn't matter what quality the recording is, because the limiting factor for fidelity is going to be the hardware it's playing through.
Google Play Music seems to be streaming with MP3 for me, at least in Chrome on Mac (maybe the native apps are different?). I don't use Spotify so I am unable to test it (I updated my post to note OGG anyhow).
I just tested Google Play Music, and it's streaming in MP3 for me (Chrome on Mac). Maybe it streams using different formats for different platforms, though?
> the worst quality in the history of broadcasting
because his stuff was never transmitted by FM radio, let alone AM radio. What.
Seriously, Neil Young is 69 and has played feedback-drenched noise for the past forty years. If he can tell compressed stream quality from source CD in A/B/X testing, I'll give you and him a lollipop. Two lollipops.
The most rose-tinted of nostalgia, absolutely mystifying. I remember AM and cassettes too and they sounded pretty bad, though listenably so. Even Spotify's lower quality is streets ahead; their high quality is indistinguishable from CD for almost anyone.
Analog transmission artifacts make sound quality worse. Digital transmission errors make playback choppy and intermittent, which completely ruins the rhythm and flow of the music.
Surely the average data plan could handle ~300kbps streaming with enough of an overhead such that buffering would make interruptions extremely unlikely?
I'd take that over having noticeably degraded sound quality almost all the time with radio.
Satellite radio does sound quite a bit worse than any recorded medium you can buy today. The difference isn't due to errors, but overcompression. That's not a problem with 128K or better AAC streams, or 192K MP3 streams for that matter, yet Young apparently isn't objecting to having his songs played on SiriusXM.
So: yeah, it's safe to say it's all about marketing his snake oil.
Neil Young has his own digital music service, it's not surprising that he tries to promote it even indirectly by not allowing streaming of his own music:
The service offers "higher" sound quality, so of course he can write "it's about sound quality." But in fact this is only about trying to bring attention to his own service. Still I can't imagine it won't remain a specialized market, offering only "more bits" that anybody not doing remixing can't use. Better use of the bandwidth would be offering more channels -- then the users would at least be able to hear individual instruments -- but that would give them "too much power," more than having the sources of the software -- music is easier to understand and reuse than the code.
Because it does not make sense. His music is and has been played on radio stations, their quality is worse than every streaming service.
I stream stuff when I am on the go and to discover new things. He basically dropped out of my casual listening and discovery framework and all I will remember him for is "Rocking in a free world".
Plus, he is trying to sell his Pono service - meh.
Huh? I am sure he is completely fine having his music streamed over the analogue airwaves on FM Radio stations. Now THAT isn't exactly great quality...
I like Neil Young. I have a lot of his albums, but this will probably just result in me listening to his music less. Streaming music just provides so much more comfort, and must people will not be able to hear the difference through cheap ear buds.
I would've respected his decision a lot more if he just said that it is about the money. There is definitely a hidden agenda here, especially considering that many of his albums had a pretty miserable recording quality to begin with.
They needed a much better explanation. I listen to most of my music on the subway with a lot of background noise; I never worry about low sound quality.
I have never heard any stereo remotely duplicate the sound of hearing, say, a violin acoustically live. I don't think the difference is a higher effective bit rate. There's something else going on. Maybe it's the shape of our ears.
If someone wants to revolutionize music reproduction, how about solving this problem?
Absolutely. When you listen to a violin live, you're of course not just getting the violin, but you're getting all the reverb of the environment, the spatial cues created by sound bouncing off your body and around your ears, etc.
So taking a violin sound and then playing it out of a speaker, you're playing into a totally different environment and it's going to sound different. If you've also captured the sound of the environment in which the violin was played, you're then also playing THOSE sounds into a different environment. The reverb still gets affected by the environment your speakers are in.
I think the closest you can get is binaural recordings done with mics worn on your own ears and then played back using suitable headphones.
Even that still doesn't cover the tactile dimension of sound (think about the feeling you get when bass goes through large stage monitors). There are products that try and reproduce this - I haven't tried any of them but would be eager to, as I primarily listen to music with headphones.
Nor does it cover spatialization properly either - without some form of processing, the sound source won't stay in position when you move your head.
A bit off-topic, but the more I think along these lines, the more I imagine the ideal music delivery medium being dry multitrack recordings with mixing and reverb supplied as metadata that's then applied with real-time audio processing. That'd be pretty wild!
> A bit off-topic, but the more I think along these lines, the more I imagine the ideal music delivery medium being dry multitrack recordings with mixing and reverb supplied as metadata that's then applied with real-time audio processing. That'd be pretty wild!
You can also tweak the sound with impulse sampling of speakers in your room and use DSP to correct for the room response. I went this route and couldn't be happier with the result.
Personally sound quality is more important to me. I'd be a lot happier if Taylor Swift had put her foot down for FLAC-encoded downloads being made available or something.
Because trying to find those is literally impossible.
> Because trying to find those is literally impossible.
Well, 'nearly' impossible. Google 'FLAC streaming service' and you'll find tidal.com. I don't know if there's any other. If you don't pay for music downloads, then finding them isn't a problem [1] but rather troublesome.
Most people don't know FLAC exists and they don't care about sound quality. Take a look at the top 100 music torrents on thepiratebay [2]. None of them is FLAC.
Conversely I've never had any trouble finding Flac-encoded torrents of any track I've wanted. There's just no way to pay the artist (usually) for them, because for some reason record companies think CD sales are worth protecting.
I'm sorry but what an utter absolute load of crap. Especially given this:
http://gizmodo.com/dont-buy-what-neil-young-is-selling-16784...
Read some of the comments down on his Facebook also. His fans are not happy (rightfully so).