[innguest]

Is that the advice you'd give to a 5'5" woman who lives alone? "When the attacker gets in your house, grab a kitchen knife"?

'Cause I'd say, grab a shotgun and shoot in their general direction.

Good for you that as a brave man called Rory it's easy to get rid of invaders with a kitchen knife. You'll probably have the same results with a fake knife.

[task_queue]

A good percentage of the time a weapon used by a homeowner during a home invasion is used against them.

Get out of the house and let the authorities deal with it. Your stuff isn't worth your life or your family's continued safety.

Remember that most burglars aren't as shocked or scared as you are during a burglary. It's a routine for them. Their attention is focused on what to do if someone in the house notices.

If you brandish a weapon you're dealing with someone who is more alert and aware of the situation than you are and has no intention of dying.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/having-a...

[stickfigure]

A good percentage of the time a weapon used by a homeowner during a home invasion is used against them.

This quasi-statistic (which I will take at face value), while interesting from a sociological perspective, does not actually inform individual decisionmaking. It's a thinly veiled way of saying to someone "you can't be trusted to handle a gun/knife/whatever properly" - which, even if true for the majority of humans, is an incredibly offensive and patronizing thing to say to someone. And may just get you punched in the face, which (if it so happens) suggests that you were probably wrong about the individual in question.

[Qwertious]

That's quite an interesting comment on the tone of the argument you're responding to(http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html), but doesn't actually refute it.

People make mistakes, people are fallible, the /r/talesfromtechsupport subreddit goes to show that quite well. Despite this, you obviously don't want these people to die, and if not having a gun reduces the chance of a gun being turned on them, they may well be better without it.

Having a gun in the scenario inherently raises the stakes to lethal, after all.

[task_queue]

You're right, I assumed that they were able to handle hearing words in a civilized manner.

Doesn't sound like they're capable of controlling themselves around a deadly weapon, or is that a bad assumption to make as well?

[4ydx]

I fail to see how being punched in the face suggests anything other than that the perp is a maladjusted adult.

[tripzilch]

Same goes for speed limits.

[ende]

How about you decide what's best for yourself and I'll decide what's best for me.

[task_queue]

Are you a 5' 5" woman who was handed a gun to protect herself against someone likely to over power them?

Or are you someone who was personally offended by the generalization that they might be in the group of people, considered Normal Humans, who don't handle life-threatening situations like a person in the special forces?

[67726e]

Or maybe you just need to climb off down your high horse. You don't know better than any other person throwing their opinion out in this thread. I'm almost sad that I commented given how this has gone to shit and the pretense of an intelligent conversation is gone...

Fact is, as an American, particularly one who lives in a southern state where a gun can (legally) be purchased for cash in a grocery store parking lot with no record, if someone were to break into my house, there is a non-trivial chance that were someone to break into my home they would be armed. Given that I'm single and live by myself, were someone to break in all I would have to do is take a defensive position in some room, phone the police, and announce to the intruder that police are on their way and that I am armed. Now what if I had a wife and kids? That changes the dynamic. What do you plan on doing in that case? Running through a house with a potentially armed intruder while you are not armed? Truth be told, there aren't a lot of wide open spaces in a house and as a 6'3", 230lb male could probably overpower a single intruder. What if you have more than one? I'm a boy scout at heart. Be Prepared.

How likely is all of this? Dunno, my brother has suffered an armed home invasion. My neighbor was luckily not home when his was broken into. A coworker almost got carjacked last month, and him being armed saved his ass. Hell, I once narrowly missed getting into a car accident and when I pulled over to make sure the other car that ran off the road was fine, I nearly got jumped by a couple guys that had a couple inches and quite a few pounds of muscle on me. I'd rather not get the shit beat out of me because someone got some mud on their Mercedes. Draw a line in the sand, if they cross it they fucked up. Hell, just last week my buddy got robbed by 3 punk teenagers when he got out of his car at his girlfriend's apartment complex.

I don't think owning a firearm makes me "deal with things like I'm in the special forces", but maybe I'm just an outlier. Truth be told, I know folks that are wholesome, responsible individuals who want protection, and I know folks who illegally own firearms and don't know the first thing about how to properly handle a firearm. It's a mixed bag of nuts and only reinforces the notion that damn near anyone who wants a gun will have one. I certainly wish I lived in a Western European country (for more reasons than a little more sanity about firearms... if only my mother had attained US-German dual citizenship as she very well could have, oh well) and this wasn't as much of a thing, but I don't and I doubt I'll have much luck getting over there in the near future, so I've got to play the hand I've been dealt. Now as for assuming us firearms owners are a bunch of knuckle dragging, Dirty Harry wannabes, please reconsider your stereotype. The large majority of folks I know down here are responsible folk.

[ux-app]

> 'Cause I'd say, grab a shotgun and shoot in their general direction.

This is terrible advice.

The chance that you are the victim of a serial killer is so vanishingly small as to be not worth considering. Therefore if you have an intruder in your home, they are almost certainly after your property.

I would hope that any moral human being would not value property over a human being's life.

Therefore the best outcome which preserves human life is to simply let the intruder take your property and leave. They're almost certainly in a hurry to do so.

Involving a firearm escalates the situation unnecessarily and raises your own chances of death from very very unlikely to probably 50/50 (stat pulled from my butt).

If, on the other hand, you do believe that lethal force is justified to protect property then you have a miss aligned moral compass.

[nicksardo]

When a stranger is in my home at 3am while my spouse and two kids are upstairs sleeping, I won't risk judging what he/she will or will not do. Even if I were alone, I wouldn't take that chance. My intention is not to preserve "human life" but the lives of my family and myself.

[ux-app]

> My intention is not to preserve "human life" but the lives of my family and myself.

The irony of course is that (statistically speaking) you would be vastly lowering you and your family's chances of surviving the event.

The chance that the intruder is there to murder you is ridiculously minuscule. It's so small that the people that do indiscriminately enter homes to murder get special nicknames like "Zodiac Killer" and Hollywood makes films about them.

Worrying about this type of intruder is irrational. Pulling a gun turns what is almost certainly a routine burglary into a life and death situation.

[nicksardo]

First, your statistics are moot.

As I just said, a statistic is still a risk. A risk I will not take when it comes to family. You play it your way; I'll play it mine.

[ux-app]

> You play it your way; I'll play it mine.

Of course. I just find the idea of guns making you safe so laughably absurd (and provably false). I'm sure they make you feel safer though. Maybe that's worth something.

Here's a good comedy skit about gun ownership (NSFW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl--YVnni0I

[nicksardo]

Guns don't make me feel safe. Being properly trained on how to use defensive force makes me feel safe.

The error in your logic is that you're imagining yourself with a weapon, which indeed, is laughable and provably unsafe.

Edit: not going to bother replying and further make this thread a gun debate. Just want to state that YouTube videos of comedic skits and accidents doesn't nullify any argument. Humans will make mistakes; that's a fact of life.

[rorykoehler]

If I was a 5'5" woman I would get out of the house and call the cops. Still preferable to killing someone.

This comes to mind (particularly the part about "If he is in superior strength"):

"If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected." - Sun Tzu

[alphapapa]

What if the invader is blocking the door?

What if the invader is carrying a baseball bat?

What if he wants to rape the woman? What if he takes a cut from the knife, then knocks out the woman, rapes her, and murders her?

"Preferable"? Is the invader killing the woman preferable to the woman killing the invader?

It's amazing how shortsighted you are! "Just do this" or "just do that."

Talk to any kind of instructor in self defense or martial arts, and they will tell you to not get into a knife fight, or you will get cut. All of your ideas rely on the invader being rational and more interested in his own well-being than anything else. Yet the fact that he's a home invader shows that is not the case.

Firearms are equalizers. They make the 5'2" woman just as dangerous as the 6'+ 200+ lb. man. They allow her to defend herself from beyond the invader's reach. They make noise to draw attention to the fact that something bad is happening.

Rational people realize that they have nothing to fear from law-abiding gun owners who only want to be prepared to protect their loved ones from evil people. And rational people realize that evil people are not going away anytime soon. Rational people realize that there are plenty of irrational people who may do them harm, and that the only effective method of self-defense is to have a firearm and know how to use it.