[mikeash]

I really hate this idea that there is anything you can put your signature to which is "standard" or "a formality."

I can absolutely 100% guarantee you that if there ends up being a legal dispute here, anything and everything signed by the employee will be used against them to the extent possible. Nothing is going to be "a formality" in that case, which is the only case where it really matters.

"Standard" is just another way of saying, "we hope you don't try to negotiate anything, because that would be inconvenient."

Both are ways of trying to make an already lopsided transaction even more unfair.

My response to "standard" would be, it may be standard for you but it's not standard for me, so I'm going to check it out, and if I want changes I'll suggest them. If you're inflexible on making changes, then I guess we won't sign. My response to "formality" would be, if it's important then it matters, and if it's not important let's just take it out.

It's really funny how these things suddenly change if you challenge them. Stuff that's "just a formality" suddenly becomes super important if you try to remove it. Stuff that's "standard and cannot be changed" is suddenly completely negotiable if you tell them you'll walk if it's not changed.

[pvg]

Well, I hate to be the 'do you even lift, bro?" guy but do you work in the US? Has an AoI never crossed your desk? These aren't some oppressive tools of the man trying to keep you down. They're an attempt to head off the terrible problems that arise when IP issues are not explicit. And yes, they're standard. Was your response to 'standard' the same last time you signed an agreement for apartment rental or car insurance? How did that work out?

[mikeash]

Yes I work in the US, and no I've never signed anything like that.

I've never had anybody who rented me an apartment or sold me car insurance try to tell me that their agreement was "standard." I mean, I'm sure the insurance stuff at least is literally standard, in the sense that they have a single document they give to everybody. But I've never had anyone use the word "standard" in any context except a stupid contract that they wanted to scare me away from negotiating.

I have no illusions about being able to negotiate a contract I get from Geico. But I also won't sign it unless I actually agree with the whole thing. Call it "standard," fine. But don't say it's "standard" therefore it's OK if there are parts you don't like.

And I don't care how common it is, a contract that says the company by default owns everything you've ever done except for things you've explicitly listed is oppressive. What if you just forgot about something important when you make the list? A clause that says things you make on company time are owned by the company is somewhat sensible (although my understanding is that it's unnecessary, as that's already the law). Say you have to tell them everything you've ever made, and they by default claim anything you didn't explicitly list, is nuts.

[pvg]

Are you saying you work in the US, as a full-time employee and you've never signed an AoI agreement? It's certainly possible but it sounds very unusual.

[mikeash]

I don't believe I have. Certainly never anything as far-reaching as this one. I've never worked for a big company, partly for reasons like this.

[pvg]

Well, colour me surprised and I'll take your word for it. Take my word for it that AoI's are routine in companies big and small and that, in fact, nothing bad comes of them, statistically ever.

[mikeash]

Well, again, if they're not going to be used for what they say, then the wording can be changed. If the wording can't be changed then I can't trust them never to use it.