[protomyth]

I want the company that receives the H1B to pay an addition tax on the salary that goes to unemployment. It needs to be something above an beyond what is payed for a citizen. After all, the H1B is supposed to have skills that the local workers don't and thus should be worth the extra money.

[saool]

Unless you are tarring ships, you mean paid, not payed.

As an H1-B holder you have to jump through many hoops, including constant attention to your command of the language. How does it feel to be judged? :)

More importantly, why would you expect more from a foreign applicant that from a local? The point is there shouldn't be discrimination, in either way. H1-Bs are for specialty occupations that are in high demand to begin with. Not sure what encourages you to be more catholic than the Pope.

[protomyth]

> Unless you are tarring ships, you mean paid, not payed.

> As an H1-B holder you have to jump through many hoops, including constant attention to your command of the language. How does it feel to be judged? :)

I never brought up language issues, that is your hang-up and a distraction from my point. Further, if you think everyone isn't judged, then you are just loopy.

> More importantly, why would you expect more from a foreign applicant that from a local?

Because that is the stated legal purpose of the H1B program. It says that H1B workers have skills that the local programmers do not.

> The point is there shouldn't be discrimination, in either way.

In personal dealings, here we are talking about a government's responsibility to its citizens.

> H1-Bs are for specialty occupations that are in high demand to begin with.

If Disney decides to fire all its IT workers and replace them with contracted H1Bs then I would say the law failed. The purpose of the law is to fill knowledge gaps not add labor to the market.

> Not sure what encourages you to be more catholic than the Pope.

The law states the purpose.

[saool]

Your whole premise is, and I quote, "H1B is supposed to have skills that the local workers don't and thus should be worth the extra money."

That's false. I think you are mistaken about what an H1-B visa is: it's a temporary, non-immigrant visa that allows people with specialty occupations (and thus in high demand) to work for 6 years in the States.

The skill condition (as determined by a LCA application) to get one is not that you should have extraordinary skills the locals don't (That would be an O-1 visa, or an EB-1), but rather that you have the skills and the degree, and that your employer is willing to compensate you as well as they would compensate a local.

If you don't believe me, here's a link to USCIS: http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/h-1b-specialty-occupatio...

I won't deny that there's abuse by big corporations using H1-Bs to hire people that look like seniors but are really junior in skill, but it's cause they skirt the law and have gotten away with it so far. I see no sanctions to Infosys or Tata for selling people with say, Junior Engineer skill as Seniors, but what I see lots of hate towards the H1-B workers. If Disney fired the senior IT guys and replaced them with recent graduates, told them to train them, it would be the exact same situation, only we wouldn't be hearing "they took our jobs".

So as with everything in this country, the suits fuck the little guy over and the little guy blames the neighbor.

[protomyth]

"That's false. I think you are mistaken about what an H1-B visa is:"

No, you do not understand the H-1B http://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm

"The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce by authorizing the temporary employment of qualified individuals who are not otherwise authorized to work in the United States."

You looked at only the foreign worker part and not the American company part.

[Veratyr]

> the H1B is supposed to have skills that the local workers don't

Given that, wouldn't it make more sense for the extra money to go into education? How is contributing to unemployment going to get Americans more jobs?

What about companies that need the skills but can't afford the more expensive workers? If I'm a small startup with a $200k budget for an <insert niche field> expert but there are no citizens with the skills available (at all), paying $220k may not be an option, leaving me with either a loan or without the skills I need.

[protomyth]

> Given that, wouldn't it make more sense for the extra money to go into education? How is contributing to unemployment going to get Americans more jobs?

Unemployment is the result and those budgets are stretched these days. In some place unemployment pays for classes.

> What about companies that need the skills but can't afford the more expensive workers? If I'm a small startup with a $200k budget for an <insert niche field> expert but there are no citizens with the skills available (at all), paying $220k may not be an option, leaving me with either a loan or without the skills I need.

Why do you think its ok to not pay people the market rate just so you can benefit? Perhaps you need to compensate by equity or profit sharing? Why are workers less valuable then your startup?

[Veratyr]

> Unemployment is the result

Unemployment isn't the result of H1B, it's the result of Americans lacking the necessary skills. H1B is also the result of that lack of skill. Yes the H1B is abused but that's a separate issue to what I'm saying.

> and those budgets are stretched these days

Well you can either increase the budget or reduce the unemployment. One results in unproductive money drain, the other results in more people performing productive tasks.

> Why do you think its ok to not pay people the market rate just so you can benefit?

I'm not saying not to pay the market rate, I'm saying there's no market. There are 10 people with the skills I need in the country. All of them are at megacorps and being paid $200k, which is the same I'd offer. I'm just a small company, I can't compete with a megacorp.

[protomyth]

> Unemployment isn't the result of H1B, it's the result of Americans lacking the necessary skills.

No, the workers had the skills and were doing the job. Its the result of a company wanting those same skills cheaper. Unemployment is the result.

> I'm not saying not to pay the market rate, I'm saying there's no market. There are 10 people with the skills I need in the country. All of them are at megacorps and being paid $200k, which is the same I'd offer. I'm just a small company, I can't compete with a megacorp.

If there are truly only 10 people who can do what you need then that is what the H1B program was for. If the skill is valuable maybe you need to figure out other incentives than salary.

[Veratyr]

> No, the workers had the skills and were doing the job. Its the result of a company wanting those same skills cheaper. Unemployment is the result.

That's abuse of the H1B, something that I acknowledge but is a separate issue. I acknowledge that abuse of the H1B results in unemployment. I'm arguing for the H1B as it was intended.

> If there are truly only 10 people who can do what you need then that is what the H1B program was for.

Exactly.

> If the skill is valuable maybe you need to figure out other incentives than salary.

I can't hope to compete with a megacorp and that's my point. No matter what I offer they can outdo it. My only hope is to find employees outside the megacorp which means employees outside the US.

[sremani]

I would rather burden the employer with additional tax, scrutiny and labor rules. This mechanism is to reset to original intent of acquiring talent rather than cost-saving labor (as currently practiced).

[protomyth]

I meant the employer of the H1B needs to pay an additional tax.

> This mechanism is to reset to original intent of acquiring talent rather than cost-saving labor (as currently practiced).

completely agree - also looking at folks who come here to be educated getting work visas.