[keslag]

Because I would feel uncomfortable if my boss wore a shirt of dicks all over it. Its inappropriate in any professional setting other than porn star or pimp. It's sexist objectification of women, and undoubtedly makes some of his peers uncomfortable. Not cool.

edit: I should have googled the shirt first, somehow in my mind is was a lot worse than it was. It was more tasteless than anything.

edit2: I kept digging, looking for more angles, and it is still bad. Impossibly figured hyper sexualized illustrated women don't belong in the workplace.

[rimantas]

You know what's uncomfortable? Being around people who feel the need to be offended by anything.

[quarterto]

So if I call you a dickhead and you're offended, it's your fault?

[keslag]

It's called professionalism. And unless you're a porn star or strip club owner, this isn't appropriate attire.

[douche]

Is there any evidence that it did make his peers uncomfortable?

It's fucking clothes. Who gives a shit what someone else is wearing?

[keslag]

When those clothes belittle an entire class of people. It sends a message to his female peers that he views them primarily as objects, and as human being second. If he wore that to my office, he would be rightfully fired on the spot.

[douche]

I'm glad that I don't work in your office. Any kind of work environment that is that intolerant is a huge red flag.

[arrrg]

Me, me, me, it’s only about me! That’s what you sound like – and that’s not what mutual respect looks like. Mutual respect means communicating with others and finding an ok solution for everybody, not wearing whatever the hell you want (and it also means that you better be careful especially around sensitive things, like potentially objectifying depictions of women, especially in a context were women have long been denied access, and to be proactive in your behavior in those contexts, because the people affected by it may feel or actually be unable to speak up).

[keslag]

Yea, we're incredibly intolerant. Men and women in equal roles, with equal pay, and a healthy diversity of cultures, ideas, and religions. Everyone feels comfortable suggesting an idea, or challenging a preconceived notion. The only real rule is Don't be a douche. You wouldn't like it.

[DanBC]

For fucks sake spit the hook.

[hoopd]

> The only real rule is Don't be a douche.

The fact that you use a gendered pejorative[0] that refers to men while claiming to have a "healthy diversity of cultures" is both ironic and representative of modern PC-culture.

[0] - https://medium.com/human-parts/douchebag-the-white-racial-sl...

[douche]

To be fair, that is my username...

[keslag]

Yea, as douche points out, I was making a play off his username. Also, I wasn't aware the term douche applied to only white men. It certainly has no racial or gender connotation where I live in Canada.

[brianobush]

I have a shirt with rockets all over it. I am sure some feminist would call them dicks.

That said, I don't think that dicks are the same class as women's breasts. Impossibly figured hyper sexualized illustrated women? What does that even mean?

[tremendo]

and here we are, exciting scientific news and you've spent over an hour discussing a shirt that unfortunately got posted to the Internet, whether it made the wearer's co-workers uncomfortable or not, whether it fits the wearer's environment culture or not, nobody knows, but a whole lot of people sure like any excuse for being outraged.

[vezzy-fnord]

Fun fact: The shirt he wore was designed by a woman - Elly Prizeman [1].

[1] http://www.newsweek.com/interview-woman-behind-shirtgate-shi...

[13thLetter]

Let's say for the sake of argument that this shirt -- which was a present from a female friend, by the way -- wasn't appropriate in his workplace. Isn't that something for the people in his workplace (a workplace which had several women in positions of authority, by the way, so there's no reason to think the situation wouldn't have been addressed) to sort out? Was it really necessary to pillory the man as a sexist in worldwide media and force him to make a tearful apology on international television? Can we at least agree that the whole situation was ridiculously blown out of proportion?

[wpietri]

The guy didn't just wear it in his workplace, in which it would be mainly up to his workplace.

He wore it while representing a major scientific effort to the world. During a period where we are working very hard to drag our culture out of millennia of patriarchy, race-based dominance, and other primitive idiocy. And while a great number of people are trying very hard to solve the diversity issues in science.

So no, it was not blown out of proportion. He was unlucky in that this is a moment of transition. 25 years ago nobody bothered would have felt safe speaking up, and 25 years from now things will hopefully have changed enough that one mistake won't be emblematic of a major societal problem. But today's today. And today we have a lot of people whose toes have been stepped on all their goddamn lives.

[13thLetter]

Is anyone allowed to disagree with you about whether or not distributed punishment incited by careless journalists and carried out by mobs of bored and uninformed strangers is the best way to "drag our culture out of millennia of patriarchy, race-based dominance, and other primitive idiocy"? Or does asking questions like that make me a supporter of patriarchy, race-based dominance, and other primitive idiocy?

"And today we have a lot of people whose toes have been stepped on all their goddamn lives."

So it's okay to destroy someone who had never been one of the toe-steppers for wearing the wrong shirt?

See, this is the thing. You can bang on all you like about the evils of patriarchy, but at the end, you are advocating that random people who at best committed a minor faux pas that should be dealt with in their own workplace should be destroyed by the mob. It's as if I decried the number of people who die in traffic accidents and in response advocate that anyone who gets a speeding ticket get put in front of a firing squad. It's wrong, and you're trying to distract yourself from that fact by pretending that you are somehow bravely fighting the patriarchy by choosing the least intimidating possible target.

[wpietri]

If you can personally demonstrate the effectiveness of a better way than calling out people causing problems, I am sure plenty of people will follow your example. But if all you have to contribute is armchair carping, don't expect anybody to take you very seriously. That's not a novel position here; few programmers on HN weight highly the advice from non-programmer managers on how to program.

Also, I agree with arrg that you're being ridiculously hyperbolic. The guy spoke to the world; the world spoke back. The guy wasn't "destroyed" or put in front of "a firing squad"; he's still a functioning human being who is employed and everything. He apologized and as far as I know the apology was generally accepted. The only people I see bringing this up now are dudes apparently sore over the fact they are no longer beyond criticism for various sexist idiocies that, yes, no matter the intent, are part of how patriarchy is maintained.

[13thLetter]

"If you can personally demonstrate the effectiveness of a better way than calling out people causing problems, I am sure plenty of people will follow your example."

I have a great suggestion which would have worked perfectly and not caused any excessive harm: if anyone in his workplace was bothered by his shirt, they should have talked to his manager, and those actually affected could have resolved the issue like adults. Does every trivial workplace slight need to be dealt with in the international media?

"That's not a novel position here; few programmers on HN weight highly the advice from non-programmer managers on how to program."

Except this is not a situation where a bunch of managers weighed in and said that this guy should be shamed worldwide. This is a situation where a whole bunch of random bored strangers decided to make an example of him. Please forgive me if I'm not convinced this is how an experienced manager would deal with it.

[wpietri]

I say again that basically nobody who's taking action on this issue is interested in advice from anonymous peanut-gallery members. If you want to change how activism is done, demonstrate your better way.

> Does every trivial workplace slight need to be dealt with in the international media?

No, only the ones where the person has chosen to represent a major project in the international media. Which is the case here.

> This is a situation where a whole bunch of random bored strangers decided to make an example of him.

He spoke to the world. The world spoke back. The people doing so were generally neither random nor bored. Quite a lot of them were working female scientists, for whom this is a major and very personal issue.

Also, you aren't getting the analogy. Here, you are the useless manager trying to tell feminist activists how to better do their work, work you show no sign of understanding or even caring about.

[scatters]

"[If] anyone in his workplace was bothered by his shirt, they should have talked to his manager, and those actually affected could have resolved the issue like adults."

You're implying that only people within ESA could have been affected by his choice of clothing. But he wore that shirt in public; worse, on broadcast media, which means that those potentially affected includes the media-consuming population of the whole world. And anyone who is concerned about access to and diversity in science and technology has a right to be "bothered" by the message it sent out.

[arrrg]

Destroy someone? He still has his job, you know …

I mean, what’s this non-sensical hyperbole disconnected from reality? What’s wrong with criticizing someone and saying that what he was doing is not ok?! I mean, what are you even talking about?! The hell.

He was representing this mission to the world and he was in that position as an obvious role model and, in that moment, in a public facing role. If we cannot criticize someone like that, who are we allowed to criticize?

Also, how disconnected from any resemblance of reality can one comment be. I’m just astonished at you complete hyperbole.

[13thLetter]

Once again, let's be clear what he did that required criticism -- or, more accurately, furious accusations of sexism from dozens of news outlets, mass public shaming from an angry worldwide mob, and an tearful apology on international television.

He wore a shirt.

That's what you're energetically defending. Worldwide mobbing, targeting by the media, and a forced public apology reminiscent of misbehaving Party officials. For wearing a shirt. Let's be absolutely clear about this, please.

[arrrg]

Mobbing? Are you serious with this hyperbole?

Also, this is not some defenseless guy, caught by some camera on accident. Position of power, public role in that instance – and consequently also the responsibility that comes with that. You act like this is some little defenseless kid, unable to handle one little criticism … and you are constantly blowing the actual response and the actual criticism completely out of proportion, pretending it to be bullying or mobbing or some such bullshit. This was a tiny, tiny, tiny story. (The wailing misogynists made it big, you know.)

I think he just might be able to handle a bit of harsh criticism. Because that’s what this was. The horror. (Also, he had hordes of misogynists defending him within seconds, though I doubt he liked that.)

I’m absolutely clear about being absolutely in love with free speech and consequently criticizing someone for wearing a dumb shirt. Sure.