[DanBC]

> you can't really correct a schizophrenic.

I know many people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia or schizophrenia style illnesses.

They're all kind of embarressed about the shenanigans they get up to when they're ill. I don't know anyone who wants to get a free pass on bad behaviour just because they have a severe and enduring mental illness.

Empathy and understanding and a bit of tolerance, yes.

[derefr]

A free pass, no. But I don't think that's what was meant. It's that, for someone suffering an accute "attack" of paranoid delusion et al, you can't really bring them back to earth just by telling them they're wrong. You can tell them they're wrong after the fact... but they already know that. So it's kind of pointless, in a consequentialist sense, to correct them.

[A_COMPUTER]

I know a schizophrenic too, my grandmother. She has similar outbursts. She is institutionalized and unemployable and for many people near-intolerable to be around. My mother has been dealing with it for over 45 years. We take my grandmother out and do things with her, but she will say inappropriate things. My mother will sometimes lose control and will be downright cruel to my grandmother in response. I hate it, but I understand it. For longer than my lifetime she has been dealing with it. I have empathy and understanding and I tolerate, but I accept that some people with mental illness cannot control it and will never get better.

[trentmb]

> I don't know anyone who wants to get a free pass on bad behaviour just because they have a severe and enduring mental illness.

How many of them want to be shamed, bullied, and ostracized for it?

[DanBC]

By suggesting that people with schizophrenia have no control GP post is contributing to the culture of fear and ostrasizing that blights many people's lives.

"He's schizophrenic so he can't control his outbursts" flows into "he's schizophrenic so we sadly can't employ him" - and we know from research that this discrimination happens.

Also: it is intensly frustrating that people leap to absurd extremes. Nothing in my post can be read as "it's okay to ostracize him".

[FlannelPancake]

That wasn't really my intention, and I apologize if it came across that way.

What I meant to say is that confronting a schizophrenic about their delusions or disorganized thinking is almost assuredly a futile exercise, save maybe if you're a very well-trained professional. He clearly suffers from some paranoid delusions[0][1], and I don't think talking to him about the perils of racism is going to prove fruitful anytime soon.

> "he's schizophrenic so we sadly can't employ him"

In some cases, that's probably true - Terry Davis very likely being one of those cases. Conversely, my uncle is quite schizophrenic (pretty severe delusions and paranoia) but responds well to medication and is now gainfully employed, mostly because he hasn't said anything like "Spoiler alert, CIA. Guess how this ends? I have God. I win. You unconditionally surrender and suck my fucken dick. That's how this ends." [2] in quite some time.

Some people will require a large amount of care and probably aren't well-suited for the workforce. Why is that a bad thing? Your employment status doesn't reflect your worth as a person. We can, and should (not that we always do) take care of people unable to work. We have more than enough productive surplus to support their needs.

0: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/38u4zc/flight_s...

1: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/38u4zc/flight_s...

2: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/38u4zc/flight_s...

[vinceguidry]

> In some cases, that's probably true - Terry Davis very likely being one of those cases.

It's less because Terry couldn't make a useful contribution and more that he not really interested. He's had jobs in the past where he was no more or less ill. From what I've read of his life history, he walked away rather than got fired.

[FlannelPancake]

Maybe. I think it would cause a very serious disruption to bring a guy like Terry into a normal team dynamic. The CIA delusions alone would make most people understandably uncomfortable, to say nothing of the racism.

With a very patient and understanding manager, a very isolated workspace or maybe a couple very patient and understanding coworkers, and probably someone filtering all of his communication, it would be workable. I can see why Terry would not want to be an environment like that, of course.

That's not to say that someone wouldn't take a chance on him given his strong technical ability, but I'm not sure most people would look on that decision in retrospect as a good one.

[thaumaturgy]

With all respect, I think you're doing a little leaping too, though your intentions are good. If someone thinks that schizophrenic means unemployable, that person is wrong and should be corrected. We shouldn't try to pretend that schizophrenia (and other illnesses) aren't what they are for the sake of the opinions of healthier people.

Here, think of it this way: how would you respond to someone that said, "He's paralyzed from the waist down so he can't control his legs ... and therefore he's unemployable"? (Assuming of course that the job doesn't actually require working legs.)

[DanBC]

What leaps am I making?