[dallasgutauckis]

I think people also probably just realized how much of assholes they're being by using single-use containers for making coffee every day. The one-use concept is nice in theory, but it creates so much trash. It's obnoxious.

[worklogin]

This is a very self-righteous post. Do you ever eat out? Get coffee or drinks from restaurants? Use mayo/mustard packets? Eat frozen foods?

They are all analogous. They're all conveniences that use disposable containers. And no-one is calling people a holes for eating Hungry Man.

[anigbrowl]

Even the inventor of the Keurig machines is horrified by the waste involved, and admits he didn't think this through at the time he invented it.

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/waste-the-dark-side-of...

And actually, I do think that people who consume heavily packaged foods all the time are being needlessly wasteful and should feel bad about it. Do you not see the fallacy in your argument, of replying to a complaint about people who generate this sort of waste on a regular basis with questions about whether the other poster ever does anything wasteful? Of course s/he does, we all do. But there's a huge difference between occasional and systematic inefficiency.

[boyaka]

Horrified is an exaggeration. His statements shown here are at the end of the article:

---

"People didn't think too much about that back then," he said, pausing a bit before he went on, "I feel kind of guilty. The world's changed in fifteen years." He told me he's proud he created something that's so well loved, but "hindsight's 20/20," he said. "I wouldn't do it now."

---

He also says right before that that he didn't think about the waste issue at all, but I'm pretty doubtful. Engineers are taught to design for consumable/disposable parts and planned obsolescence, or at least to take them into consideration and compare them to material cost. These sorts of things can be a determining factor of whether a product can even come into existence or not. If he didn't know what he was doing, somebody working with him certainly did and pushed for it.

[mikegioia]

Do you eat two Hungry Man's every morning before work? It's not self-righteous and it's not analogous to your examples. People drink multiple coffees per day. People put Keurigs in the office and get used hundreds of times per day!

Introducing waste for activities that happen as frequently as coffee drinking is why it's different.

[mmanfrin]

Keurigs in the office are the most ridiculously wasteful things -- it wastes more time having everyone sit and wait for single-use pods to brew than for someone to just open up a stupid packet of grounds for a large carafe.

I really can't understand why offices use keurig.

[patmcc]

>>I really can't understand why offices use keurig.

It eliminates the interpersonal drama that can waste crazy amounts of time in an office. If there's a large central carafe of coffee, it can lead to:

people fighting over what brand/roast/strength to make

people fighting over a freeloader not refilling it

people fighting over who cleans it and how often

etc.

(I know that sounds crazy, but I've seen it)

With the pods, everyone can get their own coffee/tea/whatever in a little independant transaction, no drama. To the company there might be a slight increase in cost (but still almost nothing) and increase in waste (do most companies care?), but their employees are happier, so it's an easy trade off.

Edit: I'm not saying I support the use of these pods in offices, just giving some of the reasoning companies have embraced them in some places.

[brazzledazzle]

I wonder if it would make more sense to give everyone the reusable fillable ones and keep 2-3 different bags of coffee around. Best of both worlds?

[function_seven]

Choice. In my office we have four types of coffee: Strong, Medium, Weak-as-hell, and Decaf.

The coffee maker has one brew position and two extra hot plates. At any given time there are three carafes sitting on the hotplates, about 1/2 full. And they've been sitting there for a couple hours. When I want a cup of coffee, I smell the existing ones, toss whichever one is the most burnt, and brew a whole pot. Then I pour my one cup. Maybe one other person will have a cup and the rest gets tossed when someone else has to make room for their choice.

I'm not saying I'd prefer a Keurig—I prefer drip-brewed to that—but I understand why an office would like to have one. Not having to wait for an entire pot to brew would be nice.

[lobster_johnson]

Tried a French press (aka cafetière or press pot)? You get them in many sizes, from large down to single-cup, they are super fast and easy to fill, and a lot of people think it produces better-tasting coffee than drip.

[function_seven]

Yeah, I have one actually. It's been a long time since I've used it, but I just might bring it to work. Thanks for the reminder.

[boyaka]

The two floor office building I worked at had three standard office coffee brewers as well as the espresso machines, while my school had the Keurig machine. The coffee brewers are indeed my favorite of the three, but I thought the espresso machines were gross quality compared to Keurig. I would argue the coffee brewers waste a lot more time, because they would be emptied quick (especially in the morning) and it takes a good 10 minutes or more to brew a pot, not to mention potentially some cleaning effort. There were several times where I would go to get some, it would be empty, somebody would be preparing another, and I'd have to wander around to the other brewers to check them or wait. I would still probably prefer those over Keurig, but I'm really not sure I can agree that the Keurig machines waste more time (although the usage of the machine at my school was pretty low).

[manarth]

The main difference is high-pressure water (espresso/keurig) vs low pressure water (drip coffee). They taste very different (e.g. whiskey vs beer).

You could even argue that there's less waste in espresso-style…people make a single drink at a time, and generally drink it. With large carafes of drip coffee, a lot gets thrown away because sitting too long on a hot plate causes it to taste burnt.

[boyaka]

I'm going to have to side with GP on this one. One Hungry Man package has got to be at least 4-5 of these cups, same goes with most to-go packaging. Waste is not the issue here. The problem the CEO is arguing about with DRM has to do with lock-in to only being able to use Keurig hardware and cups.

[mikegioia]

> Waste is not the issue here.

I replied to worklogin's comment about lambasting the waste aspect as being self-righteous. I know the article is about DRM but we're having a tangential discussion about the waste...

[manarth]

I do buy takeaway coffee, and at a burger place, I might use ketchup sachets if that's all they have. But for use at my home, I buy bottles of ketchup, not sachets. Given a choice, why would I choose to succumb to waste?

It's like a company forcing me to use mayo sachets at home, rather than buying a bottle, because it makes them more money. That's not convenience, that's profiteering at the expense of the environment and the consumer.

[tdicola]

Conversely though, wouldn't K-cup and other single use cups be more water efficient? You don't need to rinse out and clean a filter, pot, etc. You just pour enough water into the brewing machine to make a cup of coffee.

[jbigelow76]

So you can either be a K-Cup asshole or a water wasting asshole, pick your poison. Honestly, the asshole tent is large enough to accommodate all of us in some way or another :)

[anigbrowl]

We recycle all our rinse water and tea bags/coffee grounds in the garden. We just keep a large bowl on the counter for the waste and empty it out when it gets full. Obviously this isn't practical if you live in an apartment or so, but if you have the option it works great.

[cwyers]

If you actually just drink one cup of coffee a day, like I do, I think the amount of trash created is pretty analogous to making a single cup of coffee in a larger coffee pot. It's certainly better than if I was getting a cup at Starbucks every morning.

[disposition2]

I usually only do 1 cup a day and still ended up getting the re-usable pods for 2 reasons: I prefer to pick my coffee and not be limited to coffee suppliers that make compatible K-Cups, the extra (unwarranted) trash.

And yes I get take-out, etc...which is usually not recyclable. Atleast with this 'solution', it is one more instance where I can be active about limiting my trash.

[mikegioia]

Aside from the watery taste, this is exactly why I don't use one. There's absolutely no need to involve that much plastic into every single cup of coffee!

[stephengillie]

In theory, if their pod was disassembled and emptied, would it be entirely recyclable? I know the coffee grounds would decompose well.

[boyaka]

The recyclability issue is discussed in the eastbayexpress article linked by anigbrowl in reply to one of the sibling comments.

---Quote:

Coffee companies are well aware of the problem. The second brewing system Keurig introduced, the Vue system, tried to address the issue of recyclability in what the company called "an incremental step on our environmental journey." The system doesn't work with the original K-Cup packs, which are made from number seven plastic, a blended plastic that's nearly impossible to recycle. Instead, the Vue capsules use a plastic cup made from polypropylene, number five plastic, and users can peel the foil lid and filter away from the cup.

The cups are then recyclable — in theory. The problem is the cups are too small to be captured in most recycling facilities where machinery separates objects by size and density, said Mark Oldfield, assistant director of public affairs for California's Department of Resources Recycling and Recovery. Most facilities filter out items under two-inches in diameter. In any case, number five plastic is rarely recycled in California, Oldfield said. "It's very difficult to deal with something like that," he added. "It's something where convenience is trumping our typical mantra of reducing and recycling."

[stephengillie]

After reading halfway thru the article, I was reminded about Compostable K Cups. These are a paper lid, cardboard ring, and paper mesh, without the plastic cup cover.

[mikestew]

As I understand it, no. The type of plastic that survives the hot water without leaching yummy chemicals into your drink is apparently not recyclable. Source: from memory, and too apathetic to go look it up.

[stephengillie]

Strange, I could swear the plastic was (1)LDPE.

[stephengillie]

The article says the plastic is (5) not (1). I'll have to do more research.

In the meantime, look for Compostable K-Cups. They're a solution to this problem, which hasn't been marketed enough for you to be aware of it.