[vonmoltke]

No, and your linked position paper from IEEE does not support your statement. Their position is that anyone with an ABET-accredited degree should be able to call themselves an engineer, and that licensure is required for the legally-protected titles.

[c4b3r42]

My position may be antiquated (I became engineer in 1995), but still valid. ABET accreditation requires that a person graduate from an accredited program and degree, the only degree that applies here is Software Engineer. http://www.abet.org/uploadedFiles/Accreditation/Accreditatio... How many programmers are Software Engineers? Not many from my perspective as a hiring developer. So again I say Programmer != Engineer PS For a program to be ABET the instructors must be Professional Engineers (Pass the PE Exam) go figure: "The overall competence of the faculty may be judged by such factors as education, diversity of backgrounds, engineering experience, teaching effectiveness and experience, ability to communicate, enthusiasm for developing more effective programs, level of scholarship, participation in professional societies, and licensure as Professional Engineers. "

[vonmoltke]

You specifically said engineers must be licensed. That is factually incorrect. It is also not the position of IEEE to make "engineer" a protected term (much to the chagrin of Canadians).

> ABET accreditation requires that a person graduate from an accredited program and degree, the only degree that applies here is Software Engineer.

Wrong again. First off, there are 271 ABET-accredited Computer Science degree programs. Holders of those CS degrees are eligible to call themselves engineers by the IEEE's criteria as well as to sit a PE exam. Second, the subject of the degree is irrelevant. I have a a Bachelor's of Science in Electrical Engineering, but have been an electrical engineer, systems engineer, and software engineer at various points of my career. I do not have to stop using "engineer" just because I lose the "electrical". I can sit for any PE exam I wish.

> (You) For a program to be ABET the instructors must be Professional Engineers

> (ABET) The overall competence of the faculty may be judged by such factors as ... licensure as Professional Engineers

How did "may" turn into "must"? I wonder how my university has been pulling the wool over ABET's eyes for so long, since most of the engineering professors are not PEs. Hell, I don't think some of them have any industry experience at all.

[c4b3r42]

You are wrong about IEEE and ABET programs that can call themselves engineer. This is from the IEEE publication posted above: "It is our position that the title, “Engineer,” in the United States should be available for use by individuals who have graduated with an engineering degree from an ABET/EAC accredited program of engineering education (or its equivalent). " IEEE's position is you must graduate from a ABET accredited Engineering program. Computer Scientists are not Software Engineers.