[danjones]

I honestly don't understand what Uber is trying to accomplish with the integration of non-professional drivers into it's taxi platform.

It's devaluing their actual taxi service. By failing to address the serious safety concerns head on they're opening themselves up to litigation that they don't need and also removing trust in the overall brand. All for what, getting more drivers, you've got to ask, is it worth it?

[lnanek2]

I've always picked the cheapest option in Uber and I've never gotten a bad ride. I very frequently get bad rides with Taxis, the most common being when you call them and they never show up because they just pickup someone else without and repercussions. An Uber driver would get rated out immediately for that. That require a very high rating. So I honestly don't understand why you are against them having more local drivers. There are definitely underserved areas outside the major cities.

[dEnigma]

Serious question: What exactly are the safety concerns? Both driver and customer are easily identifiable since they both connect using the Uber app, so it would be really stupid for either of them to commit a crime during the ride. If you mean non-professional drivers having accidents in traffic, I think that shouldn't be that much of a concern since everyone with a drivers license should be able to get through traffic safely.

[pjc50]

The safety concerns are that working as an Uber driver on domestic car insurance invalidates the insurance, so if they do hit anyone they won't be able to pay for the damage and injuries.

everyone with a drivers license should be able to get through traffic safely "which is why there have been no car accidents at all involving licensed drivers since the introduction of the system!"

[aianus]

You are covered under Uber's private insurance while acting as an Uber driver: https://help.uber.com/h/3c76c923-3818-4330-a0a1-b5fc9310ed39

[DanBC]

Only covers US and only covers ride-sharing.

https://help.uber.com/h/f7fbe4af-c0db-4406-9ee5-59613b38a84e

> There are a number of insurance providers that offer policies for ridesharing. Uber recommends working with your insurance agent to find a plan that works for you.

> For US ridesharing partners only, please note that although the Rasier policy will act as primary insurance while you are using the Uber Partner app, keep in mind that all partners must also carry personal auto insurance.

[aianus]

> only covers ride-sharing

That's Uber-speak for driving an Uber.

[CaptainZapp]

Which still doesn't make it valid for just about anywhere outside of the US.

Good luck claiming anything from the drivers insurance if you're harmed or killed while riding in such a vehicle.

[buro9]

Do you think that US insurance document bears any weight/influence in France?

[aianus]

They have similar coverage in Canada (http://blog.uber.com/CanadaXSafety).

Why can't they do the same thing in France?

[dEnigma]

>The safety concerns are that working as an Uber driver on domestic car insurance invalidates the insurance, so if they do hit anyone they won't be able to pay for the damage and injuries.

Fair point, I was more thinking about accidents and assaults, not the aftermath.

>which is why there have been no car accidents at all involving licensed drivers since the introduction of the system!

I'm not saying that an accident isn't possible, just that it isn't much more likely than if you'd drive yourself or use an ordinary taxi service, especially since an Uber driver would probably get kicked out of the system if he didn't drive safely.

[fweespeech]

How much do you want to bet if I stole a driver's phone the app would stay logged in and I could pretend to be them? A phone is much easier to take than a car.

Even with a picture, I could just wear stuff that obscures my hair, etc. so they wouldn't get a good look to the difference.

[gambiting]

The exact same argument applies to someone who steals an actual, licensed taxi, and I don't think people worry about fake taxi drivers when they get a cab.

[DanBC]

I agree, but people are warned about unlicenced cabs and many cab companies in UK will send an SMS with details of the car - make, colour, licence plate number - when you book because there was a problem of unlicensed cabs with radio scanners taking passengers before the real cab got there.

[fweespeech]

Of course but stealing a whole car tends to result in actual police scrutiny.

The last couple of times someone I know had a phone stolen the result was indifference.

[dnautics]

You would still need their car, as the passenger side identifies the vehicle with license plate.

[fweespeech]

Ya about that...

http://www.licenseplates.tv/replicate_a_plate.php

[dnautics]

So you're going to steal a driver's phone, appropriate a car of the same make and model, and color, then replicate a plate, before the app requires you to sign back in (every 3 or 4 days or so).

[liberte82]

Uber also displays the license plate number of the car and the vehicle make/model in the app when you make your order. This provides an additional level of verification if you have security concerns.

[fweespeech]

http://www.licenseplates.tv/replicate_a_plate.php

Actually, its not really a solution. All of these identifiers are easily duplicated :/

[dEnigma]

But why would anyone go through all this trouble just to impersonate an Uber driver and assault a passenger?

[fweespeech]

http://www.januscam.com/index.php/news/125-cab/taxi-security...

http://www.purdueexponent.org/city_state/article_8748c000-a1...

Faking Uber would be easier. Admittedly, iirc, these people were scammed relatively easily and at less of a threshold than pretending to be an Uber drive would require.

[dEnigma]

Hadn't thought of that, though that seems like a very unlikely scenario, since you would also need the car. And driving around in a stolen car with a stolen phone probably won't work for long and will probably get you caught just as fast as an actual Uber driver who assaults someone.

[pavel_lishin]

That seems like a movie plot.

[jfoutz]

I think commercial insurance covers some special cases. Like medical payments for passengers regardless of accident fault, with very high maximums. States generally don't require a super high level of coverage for ordinary drivers.

[ztnewman]

The numerous assaults prove otherwise: http://time.com/3693737/uber-new-delhi-india-rape-case/ http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/04/more-bad-ne...

[greggman]

There are likely more assaults in normal cabs then Uber.

1. You know the driver in uber. It's registered before they pick you up and send to your phone. Not so with a taxi

2. Uber tracks your GPS and the drivers. They know who's in the car (driver and passenger). Not so with Taxi

3. Drivers are rated on uber. A couple of bad ratings and they're out. Not so with taxi.

4. Uber requires no cash. Many taxi drivers don't except cards or will pressure for cash. No cash on you = less reason for assault.

So no, there is no proof that Uber has more assaults than normal taxis. So far there is only proof there are some assaults in uber and no records are kept about taxi assaults so we don't know. Searching for "cab driver assault" though brings up many many hits

[CaptainZapp]

  1. You know the driver in uber. It's registered before they pick you up and send to your phone. Not so with a taxi

You notice that card with a number, usually carrying a photo of the driver, prominently placed in just about every official taxi, just about anywhere on the globe? There's usually also information, prominently posted, on how to file an official complaint if your cabbie does dodgy stuff. In addition you have accurate fare information posted, which doesn't suddenly jump by factor 6 because a company can make more money. (I know their argument and happen to think it's bullshit)

  2. Uber tracks your GPS and the drivers. They know who's in the car (driver and passenger). Not so with Taxi

So that Uber can use this data for sleazy blog posts, or to strong arm journalists that they don't like? This alone is such a gross privacy violation that I will never, ever use this company.

  3. Drivers are rated on uber. A couple of bad ratings and they're out. Not so with taxi.

Taxi drivers are vetted, licensed and insured. Good luck to reclaim potentially hundreds of thousands of Euros for hospital costs from your Uber driver. Because his insurance will sure as hell not pay. The drivers 5 star rating will help you exactly zilch if such a situation occurs.

  4. Uber requires no cash. 

We're taking about using Uber in Europe, which (depending on the country) is far less a credit card based society than the US. In addition the "less reason got assault" argument is spurious, at best. Apart from the fact that this very, very rarely happens in most European cities a potential assailant doesn't know if you carry cash or not.

While I agree that assaults by Uber drivers are rare (even though they are pretty poorly vetted unless it becomes a pr problem) the insurance argument and Uber's callous disregard for the privacy of their customers are deal killers for me.

[Thriptic]

Numerous? This article cites a few isolated cases among the 100+ million rides per year facilitated by Uber. Even if you assume incidents are under reported, assaults and rapes are clearly extremely rare outlier events here.

[twoodfin]

Have you had much experience with UberX (I assume roughly the equivalent of UberPOP) in a city where it's prevalent?

How "professional" do you have to be to drive a car from point A to point B via GPS? Anyone who's even a little terrible at it is likely to get rated out of the system.

[Thriptic]

This. I receive far more "professional" service from Uber than I do from my local taxi service because Uber drivers are actually held accountable for their behavior, meaning:

-They show up when they say they will and do so quickly

-They take my preferred method of payment (credit card) without question

-They are transparent about the route they are taking and they don't try to screw me over

-The cars are clean and reasonably new

-The drivers don't talk on the phone the entire time or listen to music

-They don't drive like maniacs to complete the trip as quickly as possible

I can safely say none of these things about local cabs where I live.

[Shivetya]

Who determines who professional and not professional? Likely a government regulation. Is this regulation to onerous that it unfairly impedes entry into the market?

I do not know European regulations very well, but in America far too many jobs are bound to regulation and certification requirements than is reasonable

[hnnewguy]

>Who determines who professional and not professional?

It isn't difficult. You're "professional" if you are charging people for transportation services. And if you are doing so, your standard car insurance isn't going to cover you in the case of an accident.

This isn't some case of over-reaching government; if you kill or maim someone while driving from point A to point B, the likelihood of which increases as a professional driver spending more time on the road, you need to ensure that you can cover associated costs of said disaster.

People fail to see that at least part of the reason Uber is able to be cheaper than a taxi service (much like AirBnB is cheaper than hotels) is that they are skirting a requirement that taxis have: sufficient insurance.

[pjc50]

The (private) insurers. Yes, insurance is mandated by the government, but that's to make sure drivers can actually cover the damage they might cause.

[gsnedders]

In the UK, you can in theory self-insure; you just need to be able to put down a bond of £2,000,000.