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by yellowapple 4112 days ago
That's a big "if", though. For others, stealing might increase one's pleasure. This decrease v. increase of pleasure about something is what's called an "opinion".

It's not objective if it changes based on who you ask and how you observe it.
1 comments
javert 4112 days ago
> It's not objective if it changes based on who you ask and how you observe it.

Sure it is. I'm not sure what you think the word "objective" should mean.

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dragonwriter 4111 days ago
> > It's not objective if it changes based on who you ask and how you observe it.

> Sure it is.

No, its not. "Objective" means, exactly, that its truth is not dependent on who you ask or how you observe; "subjective" is the word that describes claims that are dependent on those things.

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javert 4110 days ago
If I get pleasure from doing X, that is an objective fact.

If I value Y, that is an objective fact.

Anyway, I'm not going to present a full epistemological theory of objectivity in the comments of HN. That would be futile. If you want to know about it, you can go research it. I don't mind chatting about it, I'm just pointing out that you can't expect too much from me here. Generally, the most I try to do in an online philosophical discussion is get people to think (when I disagree with them), not try to prove something. It's just not possible to prove much without, like, writing a book.

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alexvoda 4110 days ago
I think what javert meant is this: The sentence "Goodness of stealing is directly proportional with the net pleasure." (positive net pleasure = good) is objective. And the sentence "Badness of stealing is inversely proportional with the net pleasure" (negative net pleasure = bad) is equally objective.

These roughly convert to: If stealing brings you pleasure it is good for you. If stealing brings you pain it is bad for you. If being stolen from brings you pleasure it is good for you. If being stolen from brings you pain it is bad for you.

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javert 4110 days ago
Yes.

But to clarify for anyone wondering, I would also say that stealing is never pleasurable unless someone is severely fucked up, in which case overall their life is going to be unpleasurable (shitty) in general.

So it's not like my argument is an excuse to steal.

In fact, if I were to write it all out carefully, it would be the ultimate and most compelling justification for practically never stealing.

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matt_kantor 4112 days ago
Could you explain why/how pleasure is objective? It's not obvious to me what you mean.
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