[fuligo]

What I want entertainment companies to give me is exactly equivalent to the result of downloading episodes from illegal Bittorrent sites plus the ability to actually pay for them.

I want a DRM-less HD video file that I can play on any computer, when I want. I want to be able to download it from anywhere I might be in the world, and my nationality should not have an effect on the availability of the content.

Heck, if HBO had a web-based tip jar, I would just pay something for every Game of Thrones episode and otherwise go straight ahead and torrent it. You know, HBO, don't "offer" me anything, just give me an option to pay you which makes my download quasi-legal, and I'll take care of the rest myself.

[maxerickson]

I want to be able to pay $0.10 to watch something once on a specific screen much more than I want to be able to play more expensive downloads on any device.

($0.10 is just a for discussion purposes number estimating the ballpark per view revenue from ad supported stuff; of course they will resist doing this, ads also make the experience worse and don't undermine purchasing the way a price near cost on demand service would)

Some parent might chime in that this would be terrible for kids videos, I'm not trying to say it should be the only way to pay.

[ghshephard]

Let's say your average HBO subscriber watches 5 shows/weeks, so 20 shows @ $15/month - the cost would have to be closer to $1.00/show to cover it ala carte, particularly as they won't have you locked into a guaranteed $15/month.

[maxerickson]

I'm not proposing to replace HBO. I think if they did offer ala carte they would have to look at their costs and then choose a revenue maximizing price. Guessing at what their subscribers would do might be a place to start with that, but I think it probably isn't very informative.

(Say the cost of delivery is $0.05. If they have 4x the customers at $0.50 as they do at $1.00, $0.50 should make lots more money. If the cost of delivery is $0.55, then obviously $1.00 makes more money than any number of users at $0.50.)

[sebkomianos]

Thing is, what would be the numbers behind that? Would HBO make more money if they sold each episode separately to everyone all around the globe than it does now (= licensing the series to individual networks in every country)?

Because, an extra cost, for example, would be the subtitling. Right now it's done either from the networks that HBO sells the show rights to or from the torrent scene. HBO would have to hire people to do this job per episode, per show, etc.

[fuligo]

> Would HBO make more money if they sold each episode separately to everyone all around the globe

They would make more than they make now, that's for sure. Because right now, there is no way for me to pay them.

> Because, an extra cost, for example, would be the subtitling.

I don't want subtitling, just because I'm from a foreign country. What little legal content consumption options I have, they always and mandatorily come with either dubbing or subtitles.

> HBO would have to hire people to do this job per episode, per show, etc.

Like I said, that's what they (or in this case you, if you work for them) think, but that's not what I asked for. I want the show, within a few days after it aired, in an open format, with none of that internationalization crap or any added "value". People who want those extra things can use any of the existing sales channels.

I want what I can have right now illegally and conveniently, made legal by paying for it.

This might not cover or replace the existing subscriber base, but it would be an opportunity to bring additional customers on board at next-to zero cost. Just by shutting up and taking my money.

[dagw]

They would make more than they make now, that's for sure. Because right now, there is no way for me to pay them.

But there are lots of other people that are paying them. If getting you to pay more means that all those people start paying less, then they might very well lose. Also it's worth remembering that the guy in the sofa in front of his TV is not the only HBO customer. They make money selling their shows to other TV channels as well.

[fuligo]

> worth remembering that the guy in the sofa in front of his TV is not the only HBO customer

It's funny how those pass for prohibitive reasons why something can't happen until suddenly these reasons go away. This is exactly what happened to music downloading. There were international sales, fears of organizations competing with their own sales partners, and oh dear all those unsolvable problems that come with offering content free of DRM. Oh the horror. And then, all of that went away.

Arguing in favor of the status quo is always a safe position, because obviously you have current management on your side. That doesn't mean consumers don't have a nasty habit of breaking out of their straight jackets. There are good reasons why torrenting TV shows is so popular, and it only partially has to do with the price tag. I would argue that for most downloaders, the primary reason is actually quality and freedom from hassle.

Things are reasonably impossible until they aren't.

[PakG1]

All that went away, but record label executives endured some short-term pain of analog dollars becoming digital pennies. They had to start signing artists to 360 deals that gave them a cut of more than just album sales. The movie and TV industries looked at the music industry and said, "We need to be careful that doesn't happen to us." Because for movies and TV, there are no live performances and so on that can make 360 deals lucrative. It's a game theory question as to what's the best thing to do. Will your utopia truly arise in the future or will it not? And Netflix is possibly the only company willing to make a real move and find out. The rest are frozen with fear that analog dollars will become digital pennies.

[dagw]

I'm not arguing in favor of the status quo, I am in fact very much against it. I'm simply realistic enough that I don't think that HBO simply selling their shows to the world as downloads from their website will magically lead to them making more money.

As to the music industry it responded to a serious decline in sales and for all their attempts at going digital their growth is at best pretty flat and they are still far off their pre-crash peak. So streaming and DRM-free downloads at best helped the music industry slow their decline, it certainly didn't lead to them making more money.

[fuligo]

As you can see, there is a lot of hate towards my comments above, and most people here seem to think my thoughts are a net detriment to the discussion so I will stop posting.

I'd just like to say in closing that I want to pay money for a product I'm not getting right now. The main argument against this seems to be that by allowing me to pay for it, this product would suffer. I will bow to the majority opinion and get out of here.

[mason55]

> This might not cover or replace the existing subscriber base, but it would be an opportunity to bring additional customers on board at next-to zero cost. Just by shutting up and taking my money.

Except now they can no longer sell exclusive content rights to companies in each territory which means they lose a ton in license fees. So then HBO has to take over all the local marketing that each licensor was doing for them. Now, instead of collecting $1m from RomaniaTelekom with close to 100% margin, they have to set up a local office in Bucharest, contract with an ad agency, etc etc etc.

Exclusive content is a HUGE driver of consumer spend and so providers are willing to pay a TON of money for the content. Take away the exclusivity and all those big contracts go away.

[ebbv]

You're ever going to get that, sorry. The big content providers are never going to sell you a file that you can turn around and put on Bit Torrent. DRM isn't going anywhere any time soon.

[fuligo]

> big content providers are never going to sell you a file

This is obviously wrong in principle. The way music downloads work right now is exactly what I've been describing - music from iTunes or Amazon comes without DRM, and they allow me to purchase songs wherever I am, from wherever I am.

If your argument is those DRM-less music files don't make it onto Torrent sites, you're mistaken. Nevertheless, they sell them without DRM, because customers pressured them into it.

I buy it on iTunes, I put it into my music folder, copy it around to all my machines, it's just fine.

So I'm a German national being in France right now. If I decide to buy some music from iTunes, I click on the "buy" button and stuff starts downloading. However, if I try to purchase a TV show, it starts out by showing me only German shows. Deep down, I can find outdated US originals with subtitles - which is the best option they give me! What happens when I try to actually purchase one? "There is a problem with your iTunes account". Oops, I'm currently in the wrong country, no show for me! There is no getting around the fact that this sucks, it sucks needlessly, and to the detriment of everyone involved.

[sebkomianos]

Yeah, but what's their cost for one of these files and how does it compare to an episode of...Nurse Jackie, let's say?

You might not want/need subtitling but the vast majority of the foreign fans of Games of Thrones (for example) depend on it to be able to watch. So, if HBO was ever to give "files" around just like that, they would have to make sure that they are offering something far superior to torrented content, at a cost that makes it more convenient to choose it over the torrents.

[fuligo]

> they would have to make sure that they are offering something far superior to torrented content

I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, so this is the last time I'm going to respond to that (no offense): I want exactly the torrent file. I don't want them to pile on any of the additional crap they assume I need or should need.

Anyone who wants subtitles, or dubs, or a free rootkit, or whatever can use the existing sales channels. I want you to give me your product, as is, without any additional considerations or features, just straight up. I want the torrent file, and nothing else, no guarantees, no contracts, no nothing.

Just me giving you money for the right to legally consume what you made. Not some version of it, just the thing, with nothing added or subtracted.

You seem to assume torrenting shows is popular because it's free. Well, it's not free, it carries a substantial legal risk. There may well be a big portion of downloaders who don't have the money to buy the show legally. But the rest of them do it because of the benefits of the medium, not its price tag.

Offer us exactly the benefits and the convenience of the bootlegged medium, just give us an option to pay you for it. It really is that simple. Nobody is advocating you should cease any of your current offerings. Just create an additional sales channel and allow the money to flow in.

[malka]

Oh yes, I will get file without DRM. Wether they let me pay for it or not, I will get them.