[leppr]

I'm a man and the same thing happens to me all the time. People always tell me "What? You're too handsome and muscular, I don't believe you're a programmer, programmer look like geeks and are socially awkward!". It's really tough to fit in at work. Lately I've been growing my beard and drinking beers because of the social pressure, but I feel bad about it. I really wish people would stop putting everyone in a stereotype and just look at our work first, updating their mental stereotypes afterwards if need be.

[mycroft-holmes]

Same here. I worked at a creative agency some time ago and nearly every employee, men and women, at some point told me, "You know, you don't really look like a coder to me. You're too fashionable and you're not socially awkward."

I just take it in stride. What's the big deal? I just don't make it some huge issue that's related to my gender.

[nickysielicki]

Last semester I got an email from a startup called Moocho looking for summer interns. This is the email word for word.

``

> Moocho Campus Manager:

> You’ll be our quarterback. We want you to recruit, train and lead a team of Campus Ambassadors to spread the word about Moocho on your campus. Guide your team to success while getting real experience in the process. We want you to make students know, love and use Moocho on your campus.

> Think you’re up for it?

> Moocho Campus Ambassador

> Get paid to help Moocho spread the word about an (and maybe we’re biased here) awesome app that lets you spend money around campus with your phone. Work with other students and get some real experience. It’s good for your resume and great for your bank account.

> Moocho Campus CTO

> Are you a tech-loving dork or dweeb? Do people kick sand in your face at the computer lab? Are your arms thin and pale - kinda like a good piece of veal? Then you, my nerdy friend, are in luck. Moocho is hiring a tech-savvy Campus Tech Officer for UW and we want you (or your geeky friends) to apply.

``

The contrast between the business jobs and the tech job is mind blowing.

My reply was

>Is this a fucking joke?! This is what you think of software engineers?

>This is the problem with you management types, computers are pure magic to you, and if someone understands it, it must because they're frail, socially retarded, and live in their parent's basement, right?

>Fuck off.

... In retrospect I may have been making their point about the lack of social grace that software engineers may or may not have, but c'est la vie.

Just goes to show that this profession is not one that necessarily has a lot of glory, but at least for me, once I was exposed to the magic underneath our modern internet I was hooked-- there was no way I was going to ever do anything else. What could possibly be unmanly about that?

[rakoo]

Are you sure the people sending this email were "management types" ? Because you may very well have a low image of them as much as they have a low image of programmers.

Now the real problem I have with the email they sent is that "standard" positions are described in a positive way with what you will do and how awesome it will be and, basically, rewarding what you can do, except for the CTO position where they'll consider you based on what you are. It almost sounds like they'd be kind enough to take you out of your misery.

[mkr-hn]

I would have gone this way: "I'm a popular, fit, and well-respected engineer. Given your description for the CTO position, I may not be the right fit. Is the dated stereotype vital to the role, or are you flexible?"

Gives them a chance to save face (or prove it's not a good work environment).

[nickysielicki]

I definitely should have put a bit more thought into sending that email, it comes across as abrasive and I don't like to think of myself as that kind of person. One of my biggest faults is that I'm much too keen on burning bridges.

In their defense, looking through my inbox just now, I noticed they later sent out an email with everything the same, except for including a more positive remark regarding their tech position. I think they realized it was out of line.

> Moocho Campus CTO

> Do you have an aptitude for technology? Always looking for the next best thing? Do friends call you to fix their computer? Moocho is looking for a tech-savy Campus Tech Officer for Wisconsin and we want you to apply.

With that being said, I don't think I'm missing out on an opportunity of a lifetime there. I should be more considerate, though.

[leppr]

I know right... Even though it hurts a little to be different it's not the end of the world. I think what today's men must do is be strong and proud of being men, and not let the matriarchy's pseudo-inequalities get to our heads or we'll become submissive fem-men before we know it. Some people do everything they can to get attention, even if that's using their gender as a literal marketing tool... Stay strong brother.

[cafard]

Your comments (this and the one at the top) do not particularly indicate that you are hurting. And was it the matriarchy that sent out the Moocho ad--mom prefers campus quarterbacks to campus CTOs?

[robmcm]

Perhaps because your see it as a complement, and so do the people telling you.

Try flipping it on it's head see how you reacted if someone told you, "You don't look very clever, you must spend all your time looking in the mirror and talking about your feelings. Why don't you go and buy yourself something pretty while we talk about the grown up stuff".

[belovedeagle]

If someone replied to a woman explaining that her coworkers weren't being rude, they were giving her complements, they would be flagged to oblivion. Why is it appropriate for you to respond like this here? Because mycroft-holmes seems to be male? It's this sort of disgusting double standard that is the problem in the tech industry.

[mycroft-holmes]

That's quite the assumption. When I'm around your stereotypical programmer, I feel they assume I'm not as technical.

[robmcm]

That may not bother you, but lets assume it does. You may be willing to change your fashion sense in order to gain their respect (even though you shouldn't!) but you gender/race is something you can't easily change.

The problem is with the people projecting their discrimination on to you and your colleagues. You should fight this not encourage or accept it.