[bayesianhorse]

No, actually it doesn't... This stuff may be going on inside Fox News, and I doubt that. But that would be a single TV channel. In Russia they coordinate among all TV channels and there is no dissenting voice.

The superiority of western media over what is available from Russia or similar countries is not in the honesty and quality of any single media outfit, but in the plurality of media voices.

In the west, there are so many channels, shows, magazines and online sites, financed by completely different means, often pulling in different political directions, that most attempts at disinformation are discovered sooner rather than later.

[scottlocklin]

A plurality of voices which all say precisely the same things; Israel and US good, Muslims (except for our friends the Saudis) and Russians bad. The only difference between the Russian system and the US system is the Rooskies are more honest and straightforward about it, and in the US, people delude themselves into thinking there is a difference between the world view presented in MSNBC and Fox news. The main differences between MSNBC and Fox news are the personalities they demonize. The policies and worldview they present are identical.

Find me a US news outlet which, say, criticizes the preposterous influence of Saudi and Israeli intelligence services on the US political process (say, for example, the invasion of Iraq and the demonization of Syria and Iran), and I will say we have a freer news organization in the US. Or, for example, the fact that the US organized a coup against a democratically elected government in Ukraine, and put Joe Biden's son in charge of an oil company there: kind of like a corrupt oligarchy would. Meanwhile, if I want to read about this, Russia Today, despite being Russian propaganda, actually accurately reports on the subject. Which is why people welcome RT as a useful news outlet, and laugh at CNN as US propaganda.

[bayesianhorse]

I know plenty of sources who condemn Israel and the US. In the case of "Russia" as a villain, well, often the media doesn't really voice any opinion about who's bad or good, but 200 murdered journalists, no dissenting media, conquering foreign territory, tolerating extreme corruption etc just doesn't sound that well, but is supported by fact.

[scottlocklin]

I keep hearing "200 murdered journalists" -I have not really seen any evidence that it was done by the Russian government, rather than the mafiosos the present Russian government has been demonized in the US for attempting to remove from power.

As for "no dissenting media, conquering foreign territory, tolerating extreme corruption etc" -I can't tell which country you're talking about. Whenever I hear some slavophobe ranting about the Russians, it seems some peculiar case of projection.

[Mikeb85]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

We in the west are far more brainwashed than we think...

[cnp]

Yeah, so true. Its not like all of our news is being piped through top-level editorial departments of major corporate conglomerations or anything, or this video of dozens of news anchors reading a shared script is real.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PStpvviPgxk

[bayesianhorse]

If you know you are brainwashed, you obviously know the "truth". So how come you know the truth but believe the truth isn't told? You see my point?

[Mikeb85]

> If you know you are brainwashed, you obviously know the "truth".

We never really know the truth. I can tell you what I ate this morning, and I can tell you that the sky is blue (maybe blue-greyish today).

The point is that too many people believe what they see on CNN, and assume it's the absolute truth. People base their world view upon curated news without questioning anything.

Here's a great interview by Larry King on his Ora TV network (re-broadcast online by RT): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv2f6ZZmx4A

In it, Stephen Cohen (the guest) makes the point that there's little debate in the western media these days. Either you agree, or you agree more. No one questions anything anymore.

Russians will tell you everything is a lie not because everything in Russia IS a lie (some things are, some aren't - much like over here), but because it's part of Russian culture, their outlook on the world, to be cynical and critical of everything.

One poster brought up that RT is trying to discredit everything, but that's not really correct. Russians question everything, it's a part of slavic culture, hell my 92 year old Ukrainian grandfather who's been here his whole life shares that outlook.

We in the west though have been transformed into gullible sheep, who question nothing we're told because we are comfortable working our 9-5 (more like 7-6) job to pay off our credit cards and debt, while watching shitty TV shows and never finding the motivation to ever learn about anything...

[bayesianhorse]

I think watching shitty TV shows is slightly better than drinking ungodly amounts of wodka...

[marincounty]

I do feel Americans are being brainwashed by Television. No, I don't have a DMS-5 classified disorder--discovered yet, but feel too much media is geared towards fueling the economic American machine. I'm not talking just commercials either.

I do see a few groups of people trying to do something different, but they get stomped upon quicker than when I was a kid(in the 70's).

Yes, I know the Machine would breakdown if we didn't put so much into our energy into conforming to society, but just the amount of conformity we currently have is troubling. I'm being vague because I could go on for pages with examples. No, I don't see quite the same level of conformity online, but that herd mentality still seems to win? I've noticed even on HN there are some people who don't post honest alternative views like they used too? I'm not talking arguing just for the sake of arguing either, but I want to hear(within reason) the dissenters too. I can't because they get blurred out so quickly?

I am not a good writer, and having a hard time conveying what I am seeing. I just see people living lives they don't really want, or striving for a life they think they want. Some doing Horrid things in order to get ahead, and when they do get ahead legally--they still do Horrid things in order to stay ahead.(I see this absolute greed in so many families during probate/Trust proceedings. I see well off family members essentially putting brothers and sisters on the streets--over money. I don't get it? They rationalize, and just because it's legal--They proceed?) And some are so distraught chasing the good life they are brought to killing themselfs for something they think they want?

Again--I'm not a good writer, and lost focus, but just the level of conformity to get that perfect mate, house, perfect health, and job seems like it might backfire? I think media plays a huge role in conforming society. Maybe because Russian media is so obvious, it is having the opposite effect, while American media influence is so vague, we fall into their trap in the end? Yes, I know we have the most money, but are we happy?

[michaelry]

In the US, I find it interesting that the major headlines of the day, no matter how insignificant are picked up by all the major news players. The same "stories" are repeated on all every mainstream news outlet. I remember the day that all the new stories had to report how the man was arrested for "eating and driving" as a DUI. Certainly a worthy new story is such a bland world devoid of any actual events that might affect ones life. But that DUI story was parroted on several news sites. Who picks those stories I wonder?

[icebraining]

Probably from AP or another agency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press