[chrissyb]

The thing i don't like about the term "meditation" is that its too closely intertwined with spirituality. Where meditation should actually be associated with relaxation.

This article only mentions the control group twice, once to say "None of these changes were seen in the control group, indicating that they had not resulted merely from the passage of time". This is just bad reporting - How about telling us what the control group were actually doing?

If they (control group) were not taking part in any type of consistent relaxation for 8 weeks then how would you expect to see any changes in the control group?

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/yoga-woo/

[kranner]

They weren't expecting to see changes in the control group. Control groups represent the baseline, untreated state.

Also, meditation and relaxation are not the same thing.

[iQuercus]

A valuable result would be: what benefits does meditation impart over other similar activities? For example something like 30 minutes of walking every day.

A result over a non-treatment group in this case is scientifically noble, but practically useless. All it tells us is that doing something has an effect over doing nothing.

Can I get the same effects from 15 minutes of walking a day? 30 minutes? We don't know, because that wasn't compared. It should have been.

[chrissyb]

You're right, meditation is relaxation with a sprinkle of woo.

[vidarh]

You think meditation is relaxation, you do not realise how much effort it takes. I'd suggest finding a tutorial and trying even 5 minutes.

As for the "sprinkle of woo", some meditation practices comes with buckets of foo, while some are entirely woo free.

[dthunt]

I've done this for an hour or so on occasion. I don't find it a particular strain. I may be doing something different than what you are doing, though.

[vidarh]

The point is not that it's a particular strain. The point is that most people can't just sit back and let their mind go - to maintain focus requires concentration, and concentration is not "free" - it takes energy. It may feel energising - especially after you're done -, the same way exercise does, but people who think that meditation is "just relaxation" usually have no idea what is involved.

[mattrepl]

Meditation is more concentration than relaxation.

[ArtDev]

Meditation is really difficult! Like a marathon, it gets less difficult with practice.

[thrownaway2424]

I don't see why meditation needs to be associated with relaxation, at all. Meditation (at least as I understand it) is giving your conscious mind absolute concentration on a simple thing or task, so as to give quiet and calm to the rest of your mind. One of the places I try to practice this is on my motorcycle. I give absolute attention to the act of motorcycling, paying attention to every little detail, until the background threads of my mind stop singing stupid songs and asking dumb questions. Nothing to do with relaxation. It's actually a lot of work.

[estefan]

> Where meditation should actually be associated with relaxation.

Thanks for the tip! Might as well just smoke a joint if it's all about relaxing, hey?

It's pretty amazing to discover some of the less obvious aspects of yourself, I wouldn't dismiss "spirituality" without thoroughly investigating yourself first...

[chrissyb]

Thats a big leap, by your logic you could relax even more by taking a hit of Heroin.

I'm able to dismiss spirituality because I'm a skeptic and believe in evidence, not anecdotes. The power for the human mind to self delude is limitless.