[fubu]

Off topic life advice: When you tell someone to stop doing something, don't start out with the word "Please". It doesn't really make any sense as it's a pleading word used as an order. It comes off passive aggressive and abrasive. Same thing with "I'd really appreciate it if" and "Would you mind". If it really is a simple request, then by all means, but when it's an order or a direct request, just say it without the weird prefix.

[DanBC]

The phrase "Please tell your employees to stop creating fake profiles on OkCupid and spamming our users." is standard English. There is nothing wrong with the please in that sentence. Your advice is weird and wrong. Please is just a word used to convey politeness and civility with a request.

[Joeboy]

As a native, English, English speaker, I don't see anything at all wrong with goodside's phrasing. I think they successfully expressed what they were trying to express, succinctly and with appropriate tone.

[tedks]

As a native English speaker I agree with the comment parent. "Please x" is just passive-aggressive. You see it a lot on hacker news because people want to be "civil" without actually being so.

[TeMPOraL]

Please tell me (pun intended) how the hell you're supposed to be civil if being civil leads to you being accused of pretending to be civil for ultelior motives? This is stupid.

[tedks]

I don't think that's a pun.

It's not civil to say "Please stop spamming." That's like saying "Please stop beating your wife." It contains an accusation, which is never a civil thing to say. There is no civil way to bring up how your conversational partner is beating their wife or spamming OkCupid.

Adding a "Please" is pretending to be civil.

There are just some conversations that cannot be had "civilly". If you think this is stupid ....I can't really help you. Try to go have a civil conversation about someone's weight gain with them.

[TeMPOraL]

> There are just some conversations that cannot be had "civilly"

I think here lies our disagreement. I do believe that you can talk about anything in a civil manner. Being polite is completely orthogonal to the topic discussed. In this case, "please stop spamming" is just a more polite way of saying "stop spamming", period. The difference is in tone, not context, and this is how the word "please" is supposed to be used. Also, what goodside said was not "please stop spamming", but "please tell your employees to stop creating fake profiles (...) and spamming our users". Which is a request, not an order.

Accusations have nothing to do with civility. Telling me "please stop beating your wife" when I'm beating my wife is valid, just like saying "please stop spamming" is valid here because they're spamming. If you believe goodside is dishonest about Dating Ring's employees spamming OKCupid, address that.

[fubu]

Then I have a question.

> Tell your employees to stop creating fake profiles on OkCupid and spamming our users.

Seems to be what the poster really means.

>Please tell your employees to stop creating fake profiles on OkCupid and spamming our users.

That means the poster is begging the person stop? Does that really make sense? It sounds like someone is directly telling someone something, but is adding "Please" to get themselves off the hook for being seen as directly telling someone something.

As a native English speaker, I cannot remember anyone, except maybe an old person at dinner saying "Please pass the salt", say the world "Please" at the start of a phrase where it wasn't an aggressively postured order. Like this obviously was.

Serious question: Could you tell me what I'm missing with that?

[Joeboy]

The idea that "Please" means "I beg you" is archaic. It's a prefix added to convey civility. It is not contradictory to use it while also being firm or even abrasive.

I sometimes find the English language to be quirky or frustrating, and I have some sympathy with efforts to change it for the better. I think in this instance you are tilting at windmills, and not offering sensible or sincere "life advice".

[kazinator]

When you add "Please" to a request, it makes that request less of an order. The word is there because part of being civil is not ordering people around abruptly. (Even if you have the authority to give them tasks.) So in fact, when it is used for civility, it does mean "I beg you". Or at least, "I softly order you".

So in fact it doesn't make sense in some circumstances (though those circumstances are narrower and fewer than fubu seems to think).

For instance, "please" is clearly out of place in "please put the gun down on the pavement, or I will shoot!".

The civility-conveying meaning of the word is out of place in abrasive speech; for instance it is out of place in "please get off the f___ing road!" In abrasive language, if "please" appears, its presence is ironic. For instance, in a sentence like "please don't start with that bullshit again!", "please" doesn't have any connection to being civil; it doesn't function that way. Other such politeness words are also ironic in abrasive speech. "Kindly keep your mutt off my lawn!"

(There is even the usage of the word "please" by itself, or nearly so: "Oh, please!" or its variant "Puh-lease!" which expresses disagreement or disapproval.)

[TeMPOraL]

You made a very accurate description, though I'd argue that depending on situation and culture, "please" in "please put the gun down on the pavement, or I will shoot!" might not be that much out of place.

It conveys friendliness, the concept of "we're all friends here and we don't want anyone to get hurt, so let us sort this out without a mess"[0]. On the other hand one could argue that abrasive speech is very effective at bypasing various psychological bareers and delivering message straight to the target - after all, that's the reason for so much shouting and insults in the military. So there's a trade-off.

[0] - I guess I might have been watching too much Star Trek in my childhood, which gave me a deeply ingraned attitude that we can all see the bigger picture if we try hard enough.

[untog]

Context? If you're at dinner with friends you don't say "would you mind passing me the salt". With a stranger you met for the first time you certainly might.

"Please" is not a pleading word, it's a polite word. If you're going to give life advice, make sure it's right.

[jacalata]

Really? I would say that at dinner with friends. Why reserve civility and politeness for people you don't know?

[untog]

True - I was using an extreme example to make a point.

It would be more accurate to say that I don't have to, and that I sometimes don't. I'd be more likely to say "Can you pass me the salt?" or "pass the salt, will you?", which strikes me as a middle ground between "Please can you pass me the salt" and "Pass me the salt."

[Hoozt]

On Topic death advice: when giving someone advice, don't start your sentence with "Off topic life advice", as you will drop 30% of your readers* when vision hit the "off topic" part.

*No scientific evidence behind this statement, but this is the internet, so it's true.

[fubu]

It's okay. If only one person reads it and stops the passive aggressive, office speak?, whatever that bizarre stuff is, I've done the rest of the normal sane people a favor. I'll take plenty downvotes to save just one person from having to listen to that weirdness even once.

[enraged_camel]

>>I'll take plenty downvotes to save just one person from having to listen to that weirdness even once.

You are such a martyr! Your parents must be proud.

[TeMPOraL]

If it takes a lot of karma to save a soul, maybe we can pool our collective scores to save more?