Ask HN: Where can I find technical co-founders?

[nick_bristol]

Can anyone help me out with some advice on this?

I need to find technical co-founders as I am a sales and marketing focused business owner £2M t/o.

Technical co-founders in the UK (near Bristol) would be ideal as that is where I am based, but I might consider people in the Valley as we may end up there anyway.

My business idea is focused on a concept that would eventually render my own business model redundant.

I don't need work done for free - I am happy to employ someone to de-risk their time investment and I already have 2 investors who will fund us. However, I will self fund for as long as possible.

Any advice is gratefully received.

Thanks.

Nick

[Codhisattva]

Flat out hire a technical advisor. Don't bother dangling equity, just pay their rate like you would an attorney - retainer + hourly. Ask them to create a technical roadmap and architecture. With that in hand you can then find a first employee to implement it.

In this way, you can leverage the expensive expertise of a very senior level person where it's most needed and then hire a less experienced and less expensive individual to perform the daily work.

It's like building a house, hire an architect first, but then a general contractor to make it happen.

[nick_bristol]

Excellent advice - thank you. This has changed my approach from zero-sum technical co-founder/no technical co-founder!

My brother in law has successfully exited a small UK based tech start-up but I hadn't wanted to involve him in a new high risk start up due to family commitments etc. BUT he would be an excellent guy to take on an advisory role and to PM the development.

[issa]

This is GREAT, rarely followed, advice. A good technical advisor can not only break the job into smaller, manageable pieces but can also help you vet potential candidates.

[shaded2]

I would recommend this as well. but i see no reason why this person cannot be your cofounder. If you are building a software based company it would help to have a technical cofounder with a vested interest.

You don't sound like a traditional start-up, so most of the advice form startup school may not apply to you. You probably don't need someone who actually writes code day to day. I would get someone with high level expertise in building and running technical teams who can start from one developer and scale up. That person will lay out your technical infrastructure while you focus on the business side of things. This is definitely not an easy find, and is harder than finding some smart student who wants to play with latest technology x that does not fit well with your business plan.

I'm @shaded2 on twitter if you want to chat more

[Codhisattva]

Co-founder usually means "compensated with more equity than cash". And there's also the implicit massive time commitment.

Part of the point is that an advisor is typically someone so experienced you can't afford all of their time. But they can turn enough of the problem into routine bits and pieces that it becomes easier for a person with less experience to implement correctly.

I believe all too many startups suffer from inexperienced developers throwing up the first thing that comes to mind. A little guidance goes a long way to taming youthful exuberance.

[vinceguidry]

> i see no reason why this person cannot be your cofounder.

There's no real reason why anyone you find that can provide you with that service can't be your co-founder, but realistically speaking most of the people you meet won't be terribly interested in becoming a founder. It's a hell of a lot of hard work and it's very risky.

If you can convince him to take an equity stake, by all means hammer out an agreement, but you can get from zero to one even if he doesn't, simply by paying him for a clear set of deliverables.

[robinwarren]

Hi Nick,

SWFounders meetup in Bristol is a good place to start http://www.meetup.com/sw-founders/. It seems to attract a couple senior devs looking for an opportunity when I've been there.

Secondly, feel free to drop me an email (freebananas at gmail). I run http://www.meetup.com/Bristol-and-area-CTO-meetup/. If you can give me some more details I occasionally find out if someone is looking for something.

[nick_bristol]

Thanks Robin, I'll sign up and pop in.

[Scribblenaut9]

You should check out ycombinator's startup class. (It's free) http://startupclass.samaltman.com According to them, your better off with no cofounder than some random person you meet online. Ideally though, you should have someone you've known for many years.

[rajensanghvi]

As a follow up, here are the highlights of the lessons taught in that class and what to look for: https://medium.com/how-to-start-a-startup/65-quotes-from-sam...

[nick_bristol]

I am all over that - I have not seen it because I have been working the past week but now I have got a day off I am going to smash through all of the lectures: expecting great things!

[acjohnson55]

Hire somebody as a senior engineer at market rate, and if you're happy with their leadership, you can convert them to a senior position and/or upgrade them to a cofounder. But you'll want to see if they can architect your tech stack and build and lead a team first before you marry them.

[nick_bristol]

I agree - finding the right people is one of the hardest parts of running a team.

[rachelandrew]

Bristol has a pretty good startup scene (I've recently moved here). Have you checked out some of the local networking and support groups? There is some stuff concentrated around Engine Shed http://www.engine-shed.co.uk/

If you have finances you could always employ someone in a CTO type role rather than take on a co-founder.

If I were in your position I think I would define what I actually need of this additional senior person. Consider what skills they should have, what input you want of them. Then start chatting to people - if you find someone who seems ideal then you can can find out what kind of terms they would be willing to come on board under.

[nick_bristol]

Thanks! - I will check out engine shed. I plan to sit down and write out a spec sometime this week

[carterschonwald]

Interview lots of people and make it clear that they'll actually get paid. Takes work to get to know folks.

[lise_s]

Hi Nick,

I would recommend taking your time to select your co-founder. I believe it is not only about finding someone that loves your idea, and that has matching technical skills.

Sharing equity with someone, even if you can provide the security of an income, is like entering a marriage. Any confusion, lack of communication, conflicts (and there will be no matter what) will impact your team (this comes from a start-up team member that witnessed poor decision-making due to a lack of cooperation between founders).

Make sure you both have a similar vision of entrepreneurship and take your time to work with the person so you can both experiment difficulties together and see if you trust your co-founder.

You can find contractors to get you started (with an open-source framework like web2py so that your CTO will easily be able to pick up the work).

I have applied this to my project, selected potential tech co-founders because I enjoyed working with them on various occasions (work, school, start-up week-ends ...) and asked for small, paid tasks that a mentor verified for me. It is supposed to be the hardest part in entrepreneurship so I wish you the best going forward on this search for your co-founder.

I know Europe has less Tech/Start-up events to attend (I live in France) but if you can I would recommend networking, meeting as many programmers as you can. There are a lot of events registered on Meetup.com in London. http://www.meetup.com/cities/gb/17/london/tech/

Good luck !

[decentrality]

If you are looking for a co-founder and not a contractor for-hire, then it is important to source one from within your closest contacts. Ideally, choose a good friend.

Not only does the co-founder need to share your vision, they need to tolerate/accept/embrace you personally, and you them. You will go through tough times together.

If you prefer to call the shots and carry the burden of founding, then don't get a co-founder: just retain and pay a contractor, as many others have said here. It's good advice.

The illusion of a co-founder is debilitating for startups. Every founder must be putting in devoted work. It's a gunny-sack race they're in, not a baton-race, not a solo-marathon/sprint.

So find someone close to you who appreciates you personally, otherwise, hire an expert.

[nick_bristol]

You are right - I founded my current business with two friends and now only one of them is left! So I know about the grind and the importance of strong relationships.

My instinct is that if I don't have that relationship with a technical co-founder before we start then I would be in a better position to hire in and mitigate the risk of getting in bed with someone prematurely.

[DenisM]

Prepare a compelling explanation for what your proposed market is, and what you bring to the table (connections, sales experience, management experience, capital, etc)

Go to a place where technical folk and startups hang out, such as a coworking space or regular meetups. Talk to people, see if you can help anyone with an introduction or an insight. Be sure to mention what kind of person you're looking for.

Network with the people who know everyone (e.g. Manager of the coworking space, local startup bloggers, service providers). Be sure to mention be sure to mention whom you are looking for. If you do something for them, they will remember you better.

Eventually one of those people will meet someone you need, and they will remember to intoruce you.

[fsk]

If you already have a semi-established business, you are looking for an employee and not a co-founder. "Looking for a technical co-founder" implies you are starting a brand new business, not looking to bring someone in to an established business.

[nick_bristol]

My intention when I posted was to leave my existing business to run itself and to apply to YC W15 to found a new business.

Having reflected on the advice and the fact I don't have a technical co-founder I know and trust implicitly I am going to go down the route of hiring a competent technical advisor to PM this for me with sub-contracted work.

[jaoued]

My advice. 1. Try to get your MVP out asap with a young tech graduate/internship/ from Bristol University CS department. It will give you time & opportunity to find what you are looking for. Forget meeting technical co-founders like you would date people online. You have more chance of winning in the casino that meeting your tech partner online. Best you start solo than chasing first your tech co-founder.

2. Use your network as I am sure you must be linked to some great folks/friends.

You have to think as your co-founder (tech or not) as your most important relationship before hire, customers and also definitely investors. All the best.

[yosheeck]

Nick, I have a small IT business in Southampton with a branch in Poland (for cost efficiency). I've got good references, 10+ year of experience and more. Mail me if you want to talk - [e-mail]

[orky56]

I recently started Cofound Hound, a mailing list service for finding co-founders based purely on mutual matches.

You sign up & get a list of people that might be a good fit. They get a similar list weekly (with you & others on it). If there's shared interest, we intro you two. That's it. Meet them, work on something with them, whatever.

With FounderDating and CofoundersLab, your profile goes stale or you get spammed. No more.

http://www.cofoundhound.com

[binocarlos]

Hi,

Not sure I'm looking to start a new project BUT I am technical, in Bristol and would be happy to meet and say hello - email in profile

[pastaking]

Hey nick_bristol, read your bio, I love the market you're in (security in oil & gas and maritime markets), would you be open to working with someone from Canada?

[nick_bristol]

Thanks mate, I need to work with someone face to face on this one. Canada is a little cold for me!

[systemtrigger]

> I don't need work done for free - I am happy to employ someone ...

Then you want a contractor not a cofounder. One trades time for cash, the other for equity. To hire a contractor, google "hire a coder" then describe your requirements and cash reward on the sites that appear in the search results. If you really want a technical founder, become one: http://blog.samaltman.com/non-technical-founder-learn-to-hac...

[haniqassim]

Hi Nick. I am looking for a business partner and I am technology focused. My email is [e-mail]

[obiefernandez]

Reach out to me. I'm a contract CTO/Co-founder and I can probably help you [e-mail]

[stevoo]

hi ... i am not from bristol but that means nothing. i am technical founder. please send me an email if you want to discuss more.

i am looking to start a new project as my last one was completed

[kordless]

What is the t/o stand for after the 2M?

[alasdair_]

Turnover presumably.

In the UK it means the same as revenue in the US.

[soneca]

That is a tough question, as startup advice out there is "look between your friends". This is the same as saying "sorry if you didn't go to a top CS college to have smart developers friends. There is nothing you can do". Sam Altman in his last startup class went as far as to say that non-tech people have no business founding a tech business, quoting "software people should found software companies, media eople should found media company". I found that a little bit sad to hear.

Anyway, my advice. Start with "freelance-as-a-test-to-CTO contract". But the secret is to find a developer who is not a freelancer. Freelancers already made their mind, they don't want to be a CTO, they will treat your contract as any other job, probably not even prioritize yours.

You must find a non-freelancer developer with an interest to start a start-up. Maybe a guy with a dayjob who needs the paycheck and can't afford to quit it, or some other who already failed in one or two of his own ideas. Or a young smart developer who is still lookong for his idea of a startup.

Finding the right profile, you must deal with the agreement the right way. You must convince the developer that your idea has the potencial to be big. You must value his time and pay a reasonable fee. I think the right one won't charge the top market he would if he was a freelancer. He must gain other thngs than money with the job. Learning mostly. Learning about a code, as he will build a software from scratch, probably learnng new tech. Also learning how a business is built. If it fails he must be better prepared to startup his own thing, for example. That is the hard thing to get with freelancers. They will accept your proposal only for the money. You will never know if they are really interested in being part of your business for real. This is become a 100% certainty if you are outsourcing to a software factory or remote freelance, so don't even consider about it. I would start with an hourly fee, i think it is better for a test than a fulltime hire. Sometimes might be even irresponsible to hire a developer to such an only-idea startup. Too risky.

Hire the guy to make the MVP with an hourly fee. This way you will know if the guy is good, if you work well together, if you cmmunicate well. He will also know if it is something he wants to dive in. So this would be the freelancer as a test to CTO.

Now, actualy answering the qustion to where find it. I don't believe in startup events or regular networking for this. You hire the more outspken and available developer, not the right one. A good tip that worked for me is to keep an eye for this guys that show up at HN front page with a technical post or a Show HN. Rule out the very experient and famous developers who are regulars to HN front page. Search for the new, unknown guy who did something bright (HN upvotes are a great filter from tech guys for this). At the Show HN rule out the full formed startups, look, again, for the new, unknown guy who built something great as a side project.

If you have experience in the field, a good idea and money to fund (and a willingness to go to SV), i think you are in good position to attract the top talent that appear here.

Also, look for someone in "Who is hiring" Hn thread (definitely not at "Needs a freelancer?" thread).

[mgkimsal]

" But the secret is to find a developer who is not a freelancer. Freelancers already made their mind, they don't want to be a CTO, they will treat your contract as any other job, probably not even prioritize yours."

That is so not true. Many of the freelancers I know are definitely interested in committing to something - many have built moderate war-chests of their own to give themselves some runway to burn when they find the right opportunity.

"Maybe a guy with a dayjob who needs the paycheck and can't afford to quit it,"

What? You want to put more stress on someone who can't afford to give your project as much attention as you want it to get?

Of the dozens of approaches I've had to 'be the tech guy in my startup' over the last couple years, exactly 0 have actually brought enough money to pay me even a moderate rate, let alone anything close to a market rate.

All of them were caught (rightly or wrongly) in this cycle of "once we have something built, then we can sell it or get investment to grow and then we can get paid". This idea of "pay someone for an MVP" - I've no doubt it happens in some cases, but my experiences - at least outside of SV (Michigan, Pennsylvania and North Carolina) are that it's extremely rare.

[soneca]

I, as a non-tech founder, would never aproach a developer with a "pay you later" proposal. I do exactly what I advised. I pay the developer about 70% of market rate. And he is actually learning a lot with the experience.

About the guy with a day job, it does not work if it is a huge project. I imagine work load of about 10h a week for a couple of months just to test the idea. If there is validation and you work well together, then hire him fulltime. That is my current agreement. No additional stress in his life, i assure you.

[mgkimsal]

"I, as a non-tech founder, would never aproach a developer with a "pay you later" proposal. I do exactly what I advised. I pay the developer about 70% of market rate. And he is actually learning a lot with the experience."

You're in a minority if you never approach people with "pay you later". And... 70% of market rate... and people are learning a lot with the experience.... you are hiring very junior people, it sounds like.

[doctorcroc]

[Sam Altman in his last startup class went as far as to say that non-tech people have no business founding a tech business, quoting "software people should found software companies, media eople should found media company". I found that a little bit sad to hear.]

If that were the case, we wouldn't have the largest IPO in history because Jack Ma would have been unqualified to start Alibaba.

[dmritard96]

There will always be exceptions to the rule. But I believe sam was speaking with respect to high level observations from YC. Statistically speaking he is probably right.

[alasdair_]

Alibaba doesn't seem like a software company to me. I mean, yes, they have a website, but so does Nordstroms.

[nick_bristol]

Sam Altmans is right - but if all technical people could found a start up they wouldn't need YC. Some Technical guys don't have the Sales skills and some Sales guys (like me) don't have the technical skills.

Hourly fee is great advice, Ill check out the Hn Hiring thread too.

[rays123]

DM me at @kpatel79 on twitter and I will be able to point you in right direction.

[thegenius]

TLDR; Show you are willing to put in effort and labor aside from generating ideas/spending/raising capital

Hi Nick -

I can speak for myself. I am a primarily technical, sole founder of a 3+ years profitable company who had to develop the business know-how along the way.

With the ability to see both sides, what I've found is the business-side components are equally as important as the technical components; that is, neither can live without the other. But here's the rub: The technical side is a thousand times more laborious to become proficient at, and there's not even a comparison.

If you're able to take that with more than a grain of salt, it implies while your contributions are equally as important as a technical co-founders to the overall business' success - the technical co-founder is not likely to see it that way because they won't be looking at things in terms of value (which is what matters most from the business man's point of view) but in terms of value + effort.

The way you can make developers feel good about working with you is to emphasize something aside from money (risk) to contribute which shows you will be putting in a substantial amount of effort which then has tangible, measurable results. For example, if you are a good writer and willing to write lots of content for SEO.

You say you are a sales and marketing focused person, so really stress what it is you will be doing work-wise that will compel the technical co-founder to want to work with you. Will you be cold-calling 100 people with a 5 percent conversion rate every day? Will you be spending 4 hours a day using X, Y, and Z tool to come up with keyword permutations for AdWords campaigns? Will you be reaching out to a minimum of 3 potential affiliate / rev-share partners a day to maximize those types of relationships? Show what makes you good at what you do and the effort you will be putting forth to achieve your results.

[nick_bristol]

Thanks for your advice. I can see the rub for a technical person being asked for the moon and then left to deliver it whilst non-tech waits around for something to happen. I am trending towards employing a technical advisor to structure what needs to be done and then to bring people in to do the work. Your comment really underlines how the technical side are going to feel about the non-tech; and that is something I hadn't appreciated.

[thegenius]

Sure thing. It won't be as much of a problem so long as it's an employment agreement. My comments really only apply under a co-founder arrangement.

[zzzzz_]

He said he's bringing this to the table:

"I don't need work done for free - I am happy to employ someone to de-risk their time investment and I already have 2 investors who will fund us. However, I will self fund for as long as possible."

[thegenius]

I saw that. What is your point?