[thegenius]

The hardest thing about entrepreneurial success for me personally is the envy it has generated. I wasn't prepared for it.

When I first started seeing results in my business, I quit my job and was able to spend a lot of time doing whatever I wanted. My wife would post pictures of us constantly going on day trips and vacations. It pissed some important people in my life off, and they became very passive aggressive towards me.

It's easy for people who haven't experienced it to assume it's easy to ignore, but when your family members start off by criticizing you, then doubting you, then watching you succeed beyond what they could have imagined, they can end up feeling extremely violated.

I spent the first two years feeling sorry for myself that so and so wasn't talking to me. Now, I've moved on and am stronger than ever.

[ChuckMcM]

This is also one of the weird things about 'getting rich' (or a rapid change in net worth to the positive). A friend of mine who actually made it out of the dot com era with lots of residual wealth, was retelling a situation where a co-worker asked what he had done over the long weekend; What he had actually done was fly down to the Carribean with his girlfriend and spent the weekend on a sailboat (he lived in Boston). He related that he could say what he had done, but then his co-worker is pissed off because he thinks he his bragging, he can not say anything and get them pissed off about being anti-social, or he can lie about what he did, which when it gets out that it was a lie he gets in trouble too.

His take on it was he wasn't going to not do these things because it caused problems, he just wouldn't socialize. When you have kids and your friends don't, they don't want to hear about your kids and yet they are consuming your life. When your an entrepreneur and your friends aren't they don't want to hear about your business and yet your business is all you spend your time on.

[ggreer]

I'm sorry some of your relationships suffered due to your success. I doubt I've been as successful as you, but some people have reacted similarly in my life. I think it can help to view some forms of envy as a mental illness.[1] It's not your fault they're behaving that way, so don't take it personally. If these people are important to you, keep trying to reach out. They might come around eventually.

1. It's important to separate good and bad forms of envy. Bad envy involves wishing misfortune upon someone. Good envy doesn't. Many people envy Elon Musk, but don't wish him any ill and want him to succeed.

[thegenius]

I want to comment on this. While many people do envy Elon Musk, you're talking about the ones who admire him, and there is a big difference as you mention before that.

I don't know why I'm wired the way I am, but I'm just not susceptible to envy--at all. However, I hardly think that most people successful or otherwise are like me. In fact, I'd say a good bit of successful people are so because of their envy.

Envy is the worst of the 7 deadly sins. It's like Charlie Munger says, "It's the only deadly sin you're not going to have any fun with."

[ggreer]

I guess we're using different definitions. By "good envy" I meant wishing you were in the envy-ee's shoes, or at least wanting to live a similar life. I agree that such sentiment can drive people to accomplish more than they otherwise would.

[tonyedgecombe]

Is there a good form of envy?

[pyre]

> they can end up feeling extremely violated

That is their own personal issue if being proven wrong makes someone feel 'violated'.

[beachstartup]

crabs in a bucket.

[thegenius]

It wasn't so simple for me to tell myself that and feel better as I wish it were.

For example, one of the people who won't speak to me anymore is a family member who was my biggest hero growing up and the reason why I got into computer programming. I was very angry that he stopped talking to me, and he gave me all sorts of excuses as to why, but his criticisms told the truth of what was really bothering him.

Over time, what I've had to accept is that he has limitations, and he's not the hero I had made him out to be. It's takes time coming to terms with reality that way, especially when you thought so highly of the person to begin with.

[beachstartup]

all of that negativity is just a projection of their own disappointment in themselves.

real friends will cheer you on. they will be happy for you. if they're struggling, they will seek your advice - "a friend in need is a friend indeed".

family does not imply friendship. i know all of this from experience.

[eloff]

I think it just shed light on who were really your friends and who were not.

[ChrisNorstrom]

Please, please please write more of this. This is one of the most fascinating things I've read. I've never heard anyone talk about this aspect of success before.

[BSousa]

I'm not op, but will tell two stories that may interest you.

My cousin, mid 30's has FU money. Took him around 8-9 years of hard work (not in technology). He's the guy that buys a 5k rolex (or whatever big brand of watches) for fun. Last 'toy' he got was a 250k euro car for himself to drive maybe 1 month a year (he travels a lot). He is still an amazing person, tries to help people. He will have no problem spending a day with you trying to help fix a problem you may have. He will lend you 5k, no questions asked.

My parents try to badmouth him every time they can, and try to bring his accomplishments down at every party/gathering. From insulting his business partner to just saying he is an exploiter of people/resources/whatnot. I noticed his friends, behind his back do the same, even though he throws parties for them, welcomes them in their house, lets them use his pool even when he isn't there. The car I just mention before, he lets anyone drive it if they ask. But still, the envy is there.

On a smaller scale, my wife's family and friends. My wife decided to quit her job to raise our kid. I still work, but due a good amount of effort, I'm making a good amount of money. There is no need for my wife to work so we both prefer that she stays with our kid. We also live a decent life (near the beach, pool, etc) but not FU money like my cousin. The amount of flak she gets for our choices is just amazing. From her mother telling her she is kinda useless, to her friends making snide comments about getting a 'rich husband', etc. We never show off, we invite everyone to spend some time with us for free in the summer (saving them 1000's in holiday rentals and food), but still, I can feel the jealousy in them... Hard to explain completely.

I never thought this, but last few years what I noticed is in general, people are an envious bunch. A few are really happy for your successes, but most will resent you, because you are doing better than them, or 'showing' to them that some of the decisions they made in the past were the wrong ones, and they can't really come to terms with it, so it is just easier to excuse/criticise you.

[firstOrder]

I know nothing of your family, deduce nothing about them and have nothing to say about them.

However younger people often have little or no idea what happened before them. Perhaps among the aunts and uncles of a family, an older brother or sister sacrificed for years working at a dead-end job in order to put a younger brother through college. Then as things work, the younger brother moves across the country has some success, and the older brother is working in a dead-end job. This was the story in "It's A Wonderful Life" 60 years ago and the story wasn't new then.

Then they have kids - the better-off ones go to a private prep school, the ones of the guy who sacrificed go to public schools. The children don't even know everything about how one brother sacrificed his potentiality and even to some extent his children's potentiality for the other brother. Some kids go to Ivy League schools, have great financial success, and develop a conceited attitude. The sacrificer's kids might not even be able to go to college.

If you look at the Forbes 400 richest list with tech CEO's, we see Bill Gates, who was born with a million dollar trust fund, Larry Page, whose father was a professor, Mark Zuckerberg, who went to Phillips Exeter Academy etc. These are are all white, male people born on third base, or at least second base. You look at Silicon Valley CEO's and you see people whose success was shaped to a large extent before they were born. Why have they succeeded whereas some black kid, whose family moved from Mississippi to Oakland in 1947, did not? Or maybe some Ohlone's whose families "owned" large tracts of lands in the Bay Area before whites came and stole it?

It's a self-serving narrative that people succeed solely due to initiative, hard work, flexibility etc. Are white males from upper middle class families the only people who possess these traits? Of course for the self-serving narrative to be tautological, there will always be murmurs among those people that that is so. Of course once in a while a white woman from an upper class familiy will slip through, or someone from a wealthy Brahmin immigrant family, but that should go without saying.

If one brother sacrifices in a family so that another can have success, the successful person will often have a wife and kids with a vain attitude that they're better than the sacrificer and his family. The repayment for the sacrifice is contempt that they're now better than the sacrificer, and that the poorer family has some innate flaws, are uncouth and so forth. If they feel some resentment toward that, they go on HN and whine how their family resents them driving around in a flashy sports car. The only real excuse the golden child has is he has no knowledge of what went on in the years before he was born.

I know a few (computer-interested) people who went to expensive private prep schools as their families are rich. They really live in a complete bubble. In the documentary "Born Rich", one of the rich kids talks about how much of a bubble his parents live in when he introduced his normal, middle class friend to them and they ask him "where did you summer last year?" This is certainly the case, these people have no idea how the average American worker lives. It's kind of like Mitt Romney, whose father was a CEO and who went to the exclusive Cranbrook prep school blathering on how 47% of Americans are dependents who see themselves as victims. Americans were smart enough to throw him to the curb. These people who are born to the manor, and who live off the wealth they expropriate from the workers who create that wealth, are ever increasingly disconnected from the real world and reality. Why shouldn't they hold themselves in ever high regard? Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette did in the years before they wer

[BSousa]

That is an interesting point, though not really applicable to my family as far as I know (yes, my father had it harder then my cousin or myself, as I think most parents do, but as for siblings, not really) My close and extended family were always middle class. We all went to public school/college (namely since around here it is usually better than private ones). Yes, we had a lot of advantages over other folks, but not really over other people in the family. We were also very close before the 'money starter to pour'. Christmas, new years, any family member birthday, we all gathered, we celebrated, etc. When the money difference became apparent, most of that stopped. The joyful times were pretty much replaced with small talk on the times we get together.

And I agree with most of your ideas, and while I don't know the lives of Gates, Page, etc, and I have no idea how they treated their family/friends, it seems you have an idea (maybe true, I don't know, but it isn't my experience) that as people go up the ladder, they change their attitudes ('develop a conceited attitude' and 'will often have a wife and kids with a vain attitude' or 'now better than the sacrificer'). Again, I'm talking about what I saw here, but it is usually the opposite (maybe cultural differences make it so), but you see a much more humble and giving attitude with people that have reached a good level of success than the ones that haven't. The ones that do reach, usually appreciate all the hard work their parents did to give them the opportunities they have (I do every day), but the ones that didn't usually blame everyone about their problems, but give no thanks/props to the ones that have helped them. Quick example, I've worked for a startup a while ago with one main investor (basically, he was footing the bill for everything until there were revenues). He is one of the richest guys in Portugal, and when I had some personal problems and I mentioned I needed 3-4 months unpaid leave due to that, the only thing he told me: "Go, go take care of things, don't worry about coming until things are good with you", and kept paying me the salary for those 4 months. Didn't ask for a single thing, nothing.

What I'm trying to say is that maybe I have had a different experience with successful people than you, but in this corner of the world, humbleness and a giving attitude are much more prevalent when you go up the ladder than when you don't, and it is hard to find people at the bottom (Even close friends) that don't resent you for that.