[tlipeep]

Gruber bends over backwards and twists himself in knots trying to explain why he isn't disappointed after considering the expectations he set before the event. I don't see anything different in the AppleWatch functionality compared to what he criticized Android Wear for earlier this year

[jkubicek]

I thought he was pretty clear when he said

> If it actually doesn’t do much more, or allow much more, than what they demonstrated on stage last week, I am indeed going to be deeply disappointed, and I’ll be concerned about the entire direction of the company as a whole. But I get the impression that they’ve only shown us the tip of the functional iceberg, simply because they wanted to reveal the hardware — particularly the digital crown — on their own terms. The software they can keep secret longer, because it doesn’t enter the hands of the Asian supply chain.

He thinks Apple is holding some details close to the vest and he has a plausible reason for why. Say what you will about Gruber's Apple partisanship, but he's always been great at reading between the lines of Apple's publicity events.

[tlipeep]

That's wishful thinking from Gruber so he can withhold judgement/criticism. Apple clearly demonstrated the fundamental functionality of their Watch and the hardware does determine the software — they have a hardware button dedicated to one particular feature ffs. Any additional functionality via WatchKit will at best be supplemental. It'd take a while for iOS developers to get to grips with the new paradigm.

Furthermore, in his haste to differentiate Apple from the competition

> My impression of Android Wear is that it’s best thought of as a wrist-worn terminal for your Android phone and for Google’s cloud-based services. An extension for your phone, not a sibling device. Android Wear devices are almost useless other than for telling time when out of Bluetooth range from your phone. I don’t think that’s a device that many people want; it’s a solution in search of a problem. Call me biased if you want, but I think Android Wear is simply the result of the rest of the industry trying to get out in front of Apple, out of fear of how far behind they were when the iPhone dropped in 2007. On the surface, they do look like the same basic thing: small color LCD touchscreens on your wrist. But all Android Wear devices are larger and clunkier than the larger 42mm Apple Watch, and none of them are even close to the smaller 38mm one. Is there anyone who would dispute that Apple Watch is far more appealing to women than any other smartwatch on the market?

The new Sony Smart watch(1) already has more functionality (gps, waterproof, longer estimated battery, transreflective screen visible in sunlight) than the specs of the AppleWatch while the Asus ZenWatch(2) matches it in feminine looks (if not in expensive materials). Both will be out before the AppleWatch and likely for lower prices than the cheap entry-level AppleWatch. AndroidWear OEMs are iterating faster with a wider range of options. Gruber is comparing actual shipping products (Moto360) to promised unreleased products from Apple, indeed he's hoping Apple exceeds their promises. That's his bias showing

(1) http://www.sonymobile.com/global-en/products/smartwear/smart... (2) http://www.asus.com/Phones/ASUS_ZenWatch_WI500Q/

[blinkingled]

Spot on. As is typical of Gruber he is conveniently missing the fact that Android Wear updates come straight from Google - i.e. the barrier to software side of innovation is almost non-existent compared to Android phones. There is nothing in hardware or software innovation and differentiation that the OEMs and Google cannot add down the line.

There is really no merit to this article at all - it comes across as a series of bending, twisting, confusing hogwash that tries to get you to somehow believe that Apple has gotten everything right and if they haven't gotten something right they surely have secret plans to get it all right. (There is one consistent thing with Gruber - he conveniently ignores or otherwise pooh poohs facts that get in his way. Apple didn't state battery life numbers and Moto 360 battery life is widely varied in the reporting - ranging from half a day to 40 hours - but that doesn't stop him from claiming Apple Watch will run throughout the day irrespective of usage and Moto 360 will top out at half a day! Given his emphasis that Apple is doing more with the watch than competitors and given the physical limitations the claim that it will last a day no matter how you use it - is dodgy a best.)

[ismavis]

Also wrong about being useless outside of phone range: offline music playback (for bluetooth music playback) and GPS Support.

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2014/09/android-wear-moving-f...

[DannyBee]

" Android Wear devices are almost useless other than for telling time when out of Bluetooth range from your phone"

Yeah. This is the part that gets me.

Gruber is willing to withhold judgement and assume apple has not shown off everything.

But android wear makers, you see, they've shown everything in their presentation. No android wear manufacturers are planning anything different than what was shown at I/O.

[jkubicek]

> But android wear makers, you see, they've shown everything in their presentation. No android wear manufacturers are planning anything different than what was shown at I/O.

Most tech companies over-promise and under-deliver. Apple has a tendency to do the opposite (if you ignore they hyperbole). I'm sure most Android Wear manufacturers are planning beyond what they've actually announced, but I would be amazed if we see anything new before the new year.

[DannyBee]

" I'm sure most Android Wear manufacturers are planning beyond what they've actually announced, but I would be amazed if we see anything new before the new year."

So around the same timeframe that apple will actually release something? :)

[pinkyand]

> AndroidWear OEMs are iterating faster with a wider range of options.

That's the critical point.Both ecosystems are starting from a similar point. AndroidWear is iterating faster. And since watch apps are probably much simpler to build than phone apps, we'll probably won't see a big difference between the app ecosystems. And there's probably little that can be patent protected.

Probably the only difference would be that your phone will determine which watch you'll use. But the watches will pretty much be the same.

[elblanco]

Android wear is basically on gen 2 or 3. By the time Apple's Watch actually comes out they'll be on Gen 4 or 5. The iteration in Android land is breathtaking right now. And I think the devices (phones) at the mid and high end are basically better and fill many more niches than Apple's stuff.

[DannyBee]

"He thinks Apple is holding some details close to the vest and he has a plausible reason for why. Say what you will about Gruber's Apple partisanship, but he's always been great at reading between the lines of Apple's publicity events."

And he also thinks that no android wear device manufacturer is doing the same, for no plausible reason.

He's basically saying "apple has secret plans, they are awesome" and "Nobody else has secret plans, because they are not Apple. Thus, we can ignore anything they haven't talked about"

That doesn't seem very sane to me.

[notatoad]

Other people might have secret plans (like Tag Heuer's rumoured smartwatch maybe), but i think it's fair to assume that the android wear manufacturers have shown their cards. Android Wear is a released product at this point. Samsung has released four (or more?) iterations of their smartwatch. LG has released two. Motorola took some extra time to release theirs - if they had a secret awesome plan and were rushing a placeholder to market just to get their foot in the door, they would have released three months earlier. None of these companies did anything beyond the basic "smartphone notifications and action buttons on your wrist" feature set.

I'm sure there are plans for the next version to be better in lots of little ways, but i think it's perfectly rational to assume that what we are currently seeing from android wear is indicative of the general vision for android wear. If anybody had a truly game-changing idea, we would have seen some hint of it in their products by now. It's probably unreasonable to pin your hopes on apple have some revolutionary breakthrough with their smartwatch (they've been pushed to market by public pressure just as much as LG and Samsung have), but it's even more unreasonable to think that samsung has some amazing secret plan.

[fpgeek]

> i think it's fair to assume that the android wear manufacturers have shown their cards.

Um, the Android Wear manufacturers may not have any secret plans of their own, but... The Android Wear OS developer is practically jumping up and down in the corner saying "I have secret plans! I have secret plans!" See, for instance:

http://www.cnet.com/news/google-says-android-wear-about-to-g...

This shouldn't be surprising. The existing Android Wear hardware is unusually powerful (a 2010 smartphone or better?) for what it is currently doing. Given the importance of battery life, that's a strange choice - unless more is coming.

I'd also note that the GP commenter works for the previously mentioned OS developer, and the comment seems entirely consistent with someone who knows more is coming, but can't do much beyond hinting at that.

[DannyBee]

"I'd also note that the GP commenter works for the previously mentioned OS developer, and the comment seems entirely consistent with someone who knows more is coming, but can't do much beyond hinting at that."

Just to note: While it's true I work for Google, I don't speak for them on hacker news unless i explicitly say otherwise. Here, i'm just some guy. If everyone starts treating everyone otherwise, a lot of commenters would not be able to comment.

[DannyBee]

" It's probably unreasonable to pin your hopes on apple have some revolutionary breakthrough with their smartwatch (they've been pushed to market by public pressure just as much as LG and Samsung have), but it's even more unreasonable to think that samsung has some amazing secret plan."

I strongly disagree. I think they are both exactly as reasonable as each other :)

(and i also believe both are unreasonable. I'm not actually arguing they have any secret plans, i'm more arguing that the likelihood of them having secret plans, and apple having secret plans, is equal)

[freshyill]

AND he says that if it turns out Apple doesn't have secret plans, then he will indeed be very disappointed.

Everybody else's watches are shipping. If they've got secret plans, they should probably get around to revealing them.

[elblanco]

just like he backed out of being disappointed in the watch itself?

[megablast]

Well, since most of the Android devices have been released and are out there, not sure what they are waiting for in releasing whatever they have?

[bane]

I really struggled to get through this post. I can usually skim his posts despite the slavish hackishness of most of them, but I really couldn't get through this entire thing. I think it's important to see what Gruber is saying, only if because he tends to aggregate the talking points you'll hear about whatever Apple.

But this...this was really a tough post to get through. I honestly felt like I was reading some long-winded justification article by a cult acolyte who just realized the apocalypse didn't occur last Thursday at 11:23am like he was promised and is vomiting justifications to account for it.

All that being said, it's one of the few Gruber articles I didn't flag because I was interested to see how he was going to eat his words.

The only saving grace of this entire post was this line "but I think Android Wear is simply the result of the rest of the industry trying to get out in front of Apple, out of fear of how far behind they were when the iPhone dropped in 2007." which I agree completely with. But agreeing with Gruber makes me a little angry and dead feeling on the inside.

But then I read this garbage "The digital crown feels amazing. It didn’t actually control anything on-screen on the demo watches I handled last week, but it has the most amazing feel of any analog controller I’ve ever used. Lubricious (in the second sense, if not the first as well) is the word that springs to mind." and I felt a little better. I mean geez, enough. Seriously. Just come out and say you want to make love to it. No Gruber, you really meant in the first sense.

I feel a little bit dirty though after dragging my eyeballs through this post.

[w1ntermute]

I honestly don't understand why Daring Fireball hasn't been banned on HN. Gruber is just an Apple shill.

[bane]

May as well just redirect to Apple press releases on the same topic whenever a Gruber post gets submitted. It would be an interesting NLP problem to figure out what subject he's talking about and automatically find the appropriate Apple press release to redirect to.