[ctz]

The payments protocol is called EMV. The wireless transport protocol is ISO14443. Then we have different branding of the combination of EMV+ISO14443 for different card issuing networks (Mastercard PayPass, Visa payWave, etc.) Apple Pay and Google Wallet are further branding of the pair of standards.

A possible reason Apple might succeed where Google Wallet failed: Apple have a better track record of telling MNOs to fuck off. It's the reason the software update process is better on iPhone, it's the reason your iPhone doesn't come with carrier bloatware, and it's the reason they can put a secure element in their phone without the MNO being the root of trust.

[BlakePetersen]

Google doesn't cause bloatware, Carriers and Handset makers do. One of the many consequences of OSS, people can fork and bloat to their heart's content.

Also, I haven't had one issue with software updates on my Nexus 5 (which indeed comes bloatware free). If I recall correctly, wasn't the iOS7 update a shit show?

[tfinniga]

Google doesn't write the bloatware, but its actions allow bloatware to exist on android in a few ways, as far as I understand.

- Android has an open source version (that is, a version that is completely open source). Like you mentioned, this gives carriers and OEMs the freedom to do what they want, even fork and bloat.

- Android has a mixed license version, where you get the full experience of the Google Play store, Gmail, and so forth. Google has a lot more control over who it allows to use this version, since many of the components are not free software.

[BlakePetersen]

Silent Circle released the Blackphone it developed off a fork of Android. This policy has allowed for bloatware, yes, but it also allows for innovators to innovate unimpeded.

I have the choice to buy a phone without bloatware and I did. I don't know why others don't do the same and then blame the OS maker for allowing their open software to be open.

These policies also allow for cheaper phones to get into the hands of the less affluent. Not everyone can afford the new iPhone, and they would rather have a phone with a bit more bloatware if it cuts the cost of the phone down to something they can reasonably afford. I would consider that a noble endeavor on the part of Google. Instead of saying, "FUCK YOU CARRIERS/OEMS, YOU DO AS WE SAY!", it offered them a means of providing cheaper phones without decimating their bottom line. They can choose to strip out all the bloat and price it high or they can bloat it up and price it low, making up the cost from the recurring fees/ad rev those apps can generate.

The thing is, I have a choice as to what experience I want.

[ensignavenger]

Well, I agree with most of your statement, however, in your scenario you only have a choice in what experience you want if you have the money to buy the unsubsidized phone- anyone else has the choice to buy the subsidized bloatware phone or do without (which is more choice than they would have if the subsidized phone did not exist...)

[BlakePetersen]

There's another option, root and load a custom Rom. Not only will the phone run leaner (and in theory faster) but it won't have the bloat. The only investment is your time. =]

[DCKing]

There are no "two versions of Android". That's an unnecessary confusion of the situation.

There is Android, which is a complete open source operating system tailored for touchscreen devices. It is completely open source and in principle has no dependencies on any piece of propietary software to function. Android is not usually distributed with just its open source components, however.

There is Google Play Services. This a propietary set of applications and system services that interact with Google's cloud services. Since Google's cloud services are popular - most significantly the Google Play Store for Android apps - these services almost always come bundled with devices on the market. Android and Google Play Services together are also often called "Android" (even by Google itself) which is the cause of the confusion. There is a clear difference between the two, however.

Then there are further customizations in themeing, user interface components and applications made by vendors and carriers.

The problem of bloatware is that Google has only felt responsibility for Google Play Services; the other software on the system, including Android, was the responsibility of the carriers and the vendors. Android is developed by Google as an open source and popular foundation from which to provide its services - either from Android's web capabilities or from its bundled applications.

[MCRed]

If I recall correctly, wasn't the iOS7 update a shit show?

No, you don't recall correctly. iOS has had the ability to update via iTunes since it's very first release in 2007. iOS users have been able to update their devices regularly to the latest and the greatest without problems for many years, while on Android it's the exception rather than the rule.

This includes iOS 7, which like previous and later releases works across a variety of new and older devices.

The only thing controversial about iOS 7 was the UI was "flatter" and more colorful which some people didm't like.

[duncanawoods]

Huh. The IO7 update bricked my iPad. I had to get it replaced in store.

I would say that an update can't get worse but at least I liked IOS7 when I got to use it so I wasn't too phased. What actually makes me much more miserable is when software updates introduce new bugs, remove features and slow the device down and I can't do anything about it.

[BlakePetersen]

So one needs a computer with iTunes installed to update an iOS device? It doesn't do it over the air?

Also, the "update shit show" reference was toward the software that was updated, not the update process itself, regardless of the hardware/software needed to pull it off.

Source for the downvoters: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2013/10/17/apple-ios-7-pr...

[syncsynchalt]

It's updated without need for iTunes for the past several years, IIRC.

[MrScruff]

If I recall correctly, wasn't the iOS7 update a shit show?

Not sure what you're referring to. I'm happily using iOS7 on a iPhone 4 (a 4 year old phone) to this day.

[BlakePetersen]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2013/10/17/apple-ios-7-pr...

[MrScruff]

Fair enough. I didn't have any of these problems. I would say that every Mac OS update ever has generated a bunch of traffic on user forums as well, though it's always difficult to say what percentage of the user base were affected.

[ctz]

Google exercise control over the software shipped on all mainstream Android phones through Google Mobile Services licensing (GMS includes the Play Store, gmail, maps, GCM, etc.) These restrictions could include ones which prevent MNOs and OEMs from adding bloatware, but they don't.

[BlakePetersen]

These restrictions would stymie innovation as well as take the devices out of the hands of the less-affluent, no bueno.

Bloatware has some good it brings, this good just doesn't have an affect on me.

Similar to taxes, I pay a ton of them and don't really get anything back aside from so-so roads. Where someone who is in a bit worse spot sees a lot of benefits from those taxes. It's something I accept as necessary, but I still do everything I can to keep them as low as possible.

But I don't go around blaming the Federal gov't because California taxes me higher than Washington would. Instead of proposing the feds restrict what can and can't be taxed, I could just move to Washington. The choice is mine! FREEDOM FTW! ;P

[BlakePetersen]

Yea... this argument started to go south as soon as I realized it was 5pm. Surprised it is only at 0 TBH