[spindritf]

They're all vice presidents there? American Psycho is becoming truer every day.

the ruling gives Goldman an incentive to keep the ambiguous language in place so it can reserve the right to make “unpredictable post hoc determinations about which former employees should be advanced attorney’s fees and which shouldn’t,” Fuentes wrote.

Maybe there's some selection bias going, or I'm a contrarian, but somehow dissents usually make more sense than rulings.

[mcpherrinm]

American Psycho's use of VP was a reflection of the existing banking culture: It is not becoming truer; it already was.

[tlrobinson]

Yeah, GS has something like 12,000 "Vice Presidents", or ~40% of their employees.

https://www.quora.com/How-come-Goldman-Sachs-has-12-000-VPs

[mbesto]

There is a proliferation of VPs in financial institutions because it makes their clients feel like they are dealing with someone senior. Serious.

[jrockway]

Standard investment bank titles. At BofA, where I worked, the progression was Officer -> Assistant VP -> VP -> Director -> Managing Director.

In the software world, this is something like SWE II, SWE III, Senior SWE, Staff SWE, Senior Staff SWE. The titles in the software world don't make much sense either.

[ianstallings]

Man somedays I am just so happy to work for startups. I get to choose my own title. My last one was lead guitar, but it ended up confusing people so I changed it to just "lead". My current one is "software guy".

Edit: Oh sorry, I didn't know this was a serious topic, for serious discussion only. I'll just take my awesome title and go live it up, doing what the fuck I want. Have fun filling out your TPS reports.

[HCIdivision17]

I got a kick out of my first plant job. HR manager asked me what title my position was, I shrugged, "Process Engineer?" And thus became such.

It's fascinating how titles can be both so important legally (i.e. In this article) or irrelevant (everyday life?)

[Yardlink]

I don't think titles are important legally. It's hard to believe his lawyer misunderstood that when it was apparently true according to the appeal judges. I know for instance, in copyright law, being an "employee" is important for deciding ownership, but you're not an employee just because you boss gives you that title, you have to be acting like one according to an odd set of rules.

[legohead]

This isn't reddit. HN is serious business.

[ianstallings]

The funny thing is I was being serious. I guess people just didn't like what I said. So then I turned it up a notch with the edit. Because, well, I am who I am.

[vinceguidry]

I'm pretty sure legohead was being facetious.

[jtfairbank]

I was thinking of assigning everyone a fun title, and specific responsibilities to go along with it. For example, a staff member who worked as a barista in a former life could be the "Caffeine Queen" and make delicious caffeinated drinks for our team (only if she wanted to and time permitted, of course). Or I would be Senior VP of silly hats, and ensure everyone has access to a hat incase they needed to change their identity in a hurry.

[Cookingboy]

You don't happen to work for Google do you? ;)

[jmsdnns]

That's how Bear Stearns was when I was there, 26, and a VP. The title is pegged to the salary, not responsibilities.

[ianstallings]

Serious question, does that make your job search harder when you leave to a place that doesn't hand out VP titles? People seem to be very particular about titles.

Edit: Why did someone down vote me for asking a question? Don't be so goddam sensitive.

[bushido]

> does that make your job search harder when you leave to a place that doesn't hand out VP titles?

Doesn't make the job search harder within the financial industry. In my experience the majority people are recruited/courted extensively for positions in the industry, hence it's not quite a "job search" in the majority of the cases.

On the other hand, if they could choose other titles, on the lines of "lead guitar" they may have trouble with job search. People generally seem to be very particular about industry-based titles.

[ianstallings]

I agree, with such a stupid title as "lead guitar" people would never know how important I am and they might not court me. Which I am dying to do. I hope to have one day a whole wall filled with titles, certificates, and bonafides that I can point to and say "look at all those pieces of paper". Because writing software, well that's just a distraction from my real job - getting important titles..

[deciplex]

>Why did someone down vote me for asking a question? Don't be so goddam sensitive.

It's getting to the point now where people are downvoting on HN not just bad or off-topic posts, or posts they disagree with (which is already pretty close to ridiculous), but even just posts they don't think they themselves would have taken the time to write out. I'm pretty sure this post will be downvoted to a very light grey, for example.

It's gotten to the point where if I see a greyed-out post I just automatically give it an upvote. The environment around here has gotten so toxic that it is more often the case that such posts are better than average anyway.

[deciplex]

aianus you appear to be hellbanned. Looking at your post history it isn't clear to me why, but your post is dead anyway. Seems it was recent?

Kinda ironic considering the subject at hand. FWIW, to answer your question, reddit with a good list of subscribed subreddits, still does the trick IMO. Good enough, anyway.

[VolatileVoid]

Yes, it makes searching for a job harder. If you start looking for a position outside the banking/finance industry as a developer, nobody understands what a "VP" or an "Analyst" is and that it's meaningless (especially if you don't live in the US or on the east coast of the US).

Recruiters encouraged me to change it and/or edited my resume to read "Software Engineer" and then "Senior Software Engineer."

[ownagefool]

The recruiters are probably right but you could always just put (aka Software Developer) in brackets of something if you want to represent yourself with the title you were given.

[jmsdnns]

It had no serious effect on me. If anything, it made it easier because of the perceived importance, but not in any serious way. The name "bear stearns" was provocative enough.

[kasey_junk]

This doesn't come up much for me as I tend to come into places via reccomendation, but when I do deal with it, I just craft my resume to the expectations of the prospective job.

[kevinskii]

I downvoted your question because it contributes nothing to the discussion at hand and is unlikely to lead to any interesting side topic. That's all. Don't be so goddamn sensitive.

[ianstallings]

But it does add to the discussion. It's a serious question about titles, pomp and circumstance, and it's repercussions on one's chosen career. As for interesting discussion, uh, look below. Sensitive Susan.

[dmitri1981]

Vice President is a mid ranking title in an investment bank for anyone with about 5 to 6 years experience.

[ianstallings]

I think the term pomp and circumstance is completely appropriate in this case.

[loumf]

Someone once told me (but, I don't know if it's true) that you need the VP title to be able to sign off on trades, which is essentially a contract. That started a culture of proliferating the VP title.