[Dolimiter]

Is anyone else puzzled that stories about the NSA are accepted as gospel fact when posted on Hacker News?

The Reality Distortion Field appears, and people believe, because they want to believe.

It depresses me, the lack of intelligent discourse.

Most tech people I meet actually believe that the NSA records and stores all telephone calls. It's depressingly stupid, but I have given up arguing, logic and sense are not welcome when the NSA is the topic.

[glitchdout]

They do record and store (foreign and domestic) phone calls. Your comment proves you're simply an ignorant or a shill.

Proof:

* NSA Collects ‘Word for Word’ Every Domestic Communication, Says Former Analyst http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/government_programs-july-dec1...

* NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-recor...

* NSA surveillance program reaches ‘into the past’ to retrieve, replay phone calls http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-su...

* NSA spying flap extends to contents of U.S. phone calls http://www.cnet.com/news/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents...

[Dolimiter]

I'm a "shill"? Really? This is the level of debate?

Also, none of your links in any way prove that the NSA stores all phone calls. None of them. 1 is hearsay from someone, another talks about metadata, and another says that the NSA can record any phone call (yes we know that). Nowhere is there any proof that all calls are being recorded.

This is what I am talking about. It doesn't seem possible to have a conversation about the NSA on Hacker News that is based on logic, reasoning or sense.

[drunkcatsdgaf]

"MYSTIC is a voice interception program used by the National Security Agency. The program recorded every phone call made within a non-specified country for thirty days."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MYSTIC_(surveillance_program)

[mpyne]

Again, this is moving the goalposts.

The original claim was "the NSA records all phone calls".

This is saying, "the NSA records all phone calls, in a certain, non-domestic country, for a 30-day window", which is nowhere near the same.

You would think that simply accusing the NSA of what it's actually doing what be good enough, but that's only rarely the case here at HN.

[shiven]

Perhaps proof to the contrary would be more useful than the veracity or logic of an argument?

Unfortunately, with the NSA, independently verifiable proof of anything, especially doing the right thing, is impossible to attain.

[mpyne]

You're asking the parent commenter to prove a negative? Is this what logic has come to at HN?

[just1comment677]

Yes, ever since June 2013.