[drz]

Or, you know, leave everyone to their own devices, and let people choose the fields that engage them.

Males and females are not equal, in metabolism, strength, ability, or anything else. They have equal rights, but this does not mean that they deserve equal representation in all fields. Those with the highest merit deserve representation. Trying to fight this simple fact is the height of folly.

[rflrob]

While it's true that women and men aren't the same, I think that there are good reasons to believe the level of inequality we have now is not due solely to natural inclination. This video of Neil deGrasse Tyson on minorities and science is apropos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ihNLEDiuM

[steveklabnik]

Until you've demonstrated programming has some biological basis, this 'argument' is absolutely ridiculous.

[crazy1van]

I think it's less about ability and more about interest.

[sp332]

Right, that's what this fixes.

[drz]

No, it isn't. You can't dictate interest.

[sp332]

It is trivially easy to influence interest. http://www.washington.edu/news/2013/06/25/more-women-pick-co...

[drz]

This study is about stereotypes, not interest, not merit, not anything that's actually relevant.

You know what shows interest? A female willingly taking and passing CS courses. Not this bullshit.

[drz]

Men absolutely dominate in the 120+ IQ range, and high IQ is very strongly correlated with abstract reasoning.

[sp332]

But do 120+ IQ people dominate computer programming?

[drz]

You're not going to do well in computer programming unless you can reason abstractly.

[sp332]

You make this statement with no evidence.

[drz]

Programming is abstract reasoning. Apart from some syntax memorization, there's nothing more to it. Even design patterns are optional, and can be independently discovered.

[Zelphyr]

I believe the sentiment is to at least expose girls to these fields more than we have. Whether they enter them as a career is of course their choice.

[drz]

The field isn't hidden. It's already exposed to males and females in equivalent amounts.

[tomp]

> Males and females are not equal, in metabolism, strength, ability, or anything else.

More generally, people are not the same (I prefer "same" to "equal").

[sp332]

leave everyone to their own devices

Tons of men are recruited to the field, why not women?

[drz]

Show me these magical affirmative action programs targeting straight white men.

[sp332]

They're not magical. http://www.genengnews.com/insight-and-intelligence/women-sti... You don't need individual programs for men, it's the default. http://jonathanherzog.com/node/129 General trends http://www.businessinsider.com/7-things-keeping-women-out-of... Specific incidents http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents

[drz]

You do need individual programs for men as a valid counterpart for individual programs for women. Where are they?

[sp332]

I don't need an individual program for men because the industry is a mass program for men. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2012/09/19/...

[drz]

So you can't deliver on your claim at all.

You can't show any individual program for men, because there is no individual program for men.

You lose by default.

Thanks for your time.

[ambrice]

How will they know if the field engages them without being exposed to it?

[drz]

None of us here got recruited into the field, and we still found out that it engaged us, didn't we?

[sp332]

I got recruited. 4 times. I'd rather be a doctor, but that seems intimidating and I don't see a way to "break into" it.

[drz]

Show me these magical affirmative action programs targeting straight white men.

[sdfghhasdf]

amen.

[pokpokpok]

Or, you know, leave everyone to their own devices, and let people choose the fields that engage them.

blacks and whites are not equal, in metabolism, strength, ability, or anything else. They have equal rights, but this does not mean that they deserve equal representation in all fields. Those with the highest merit deserve representation. Trying to fight this simple fact is the height of folly.

[drz]

Sure. West Africans are very successful in all forms of running, for example. Are you going to deny this?