| > WPF still works very well, it is not broken. It is still one of the best UI toolkits ever constructed What exactly do you think the FixWPF campaign was about? And what else have you used? If it's so good, why are so few Windows desktop apps that come with Windows written with it?
At least Apple uses Cocoa for all its OSX Desktop apps which I find to be of much higher quality and has smoother performance. > People programming in emacs and VIM will eventually retire, the future is undeniable at this point. You're making it sound most developers using text editors are old kooks with 1-foot into retirement. How disconnected are you? What % of OSS projects on GitHub do you think use an IDE? More or less than 50%? https://github.com/trending > Dart is so far very weak on the IDE side. I wonder if the Dart team has lots of compiler people and not a lot of IDE people, They actually have quite a few IDE people on the team with many years of experience developing IDE tooling. Any immaturity is simply that the DartEditor is still so young. It was only recently that they rewrote the old Analyzer that was previously written in Java to Dart, which now runs much faster. No doubt VS benefits from a large experienced IDE team as would JetBrains. > I've seen huge C# projects build from a CMD prompt Seeing something done once doesn't extrapolate itself into a common use-case or a well-supported story, which it isn't. Having to maintain your own build scripts is a slow, painful and mundane experience which is why it's a rarely considered approach. Even the just released Swift has a better command-line story than C#, which supports #! scripts, a command-line REPL and LLVM debugger. > Citation needed, in my experience, C# kicks the JVM's butt in Win performance. Citation is still needed. Where can this butt kicking be seen? > Your numbers are completely whack. First, it shows mono being faster than the CLR, oh and you are using a virtual machine on top of that. They're not my numbers, that's the actual output from the command-line Console apps which you can see on the project page. But don't take my iMac's word for it, all the source code is there, run the benchmarks yourself. Your 2 points aren't exclusive, there is no "on top of that" they were all run from my iMac, I would've run C#/.NET natively, but y'know that's hard to do when it's the only platform that doesn't work cross-platform. Running inside Parallels likely accounts for about 10-15% performance overhead, it doesn't explain 2.3x worst performance. > As a language implementer, it is very useful. Language VM features that are optimal for compiler writers doesn't translate itself into killer general-purpose language features for everyone else. |
WPF is used for Visual Studio, and that is from VS 2010 on. WPF is used for a lot of stuff internally, its not like people are still breaking out WinForms or GDI. And then there is WP and WinRT, which are WPF derivatives.
> You're making it sound most developers using text editors are old kooks with 1-foot into retirement. How disconnected are you? What % of OSS projects on GitHub do you think use an IDE? More or less than 50%? https://github.com/trending
GitHUB isn't even a small percentage of all developers, it only represents public OSS projects. There is lots of value in a good IDE, language designers and implementors who treat it as a second class concerns are going to pay the price in popularity eventually.
> They actually have quite a few IDE people on the team with many years of experience developing IDE tooling. Any immaturity is simply that the DartEditor is still so young.
That isn't what I've heard. Anyways...Eclipse...wow...I don't see anything good coming out of that.
> It was only recently that they rewrote the old Analyzer that was previously written in Java to Dart, which now runs much faster.
Fast tools mean nothing if the UX is crap. Also, incremental performance is quite different from batch performance that you expect from the command line.
> Running inside Parallels likely accounts for about 10-15% performance overhead, it doesn't explain 2.3x worst performance.
In general, I've seen the CLR beat Mono anywhere from 1.5 to 3X. So if Mono is coming up faster than the CLR, something is probably seriously off.
> Language VM features that are optimal for compiler writers doesn't translate itself into killer general-purpose language features.
Right. But it does give you lots of options in one's managed time live programming language.