[kylebrown]

> Once you have laws and police to protect the banks, the banks are happy guaranteeing you your money back if you are a victim of fraud or theft.

This is really just not true. It's also less and less true as time goes on. There are now cases of small businesses hit by Zeus malware suing their banks for not covering the fraud losses. Its also getting more difficult for defrauded customers to get Visa to issue chargebacks; eg, my mom was told she would first have to file a court claim against a sketchy moving company which stole her credit card deposit. In China, UnionPay (the Visa of China) simply doesn't do chargebacks for customers, that's why TaoBao (eBay/amazon of China) offers escrow services.

Furthermore, watch any American Greed episode, it's on its sixth or seventh season on CNBC. Tell all the victims profiled on that show that their losses to investment frauds, mortgage frauds, ponzi schemes etc., that their money is guaranteed by the bank. It just isn't.

True, bitcoin is a Wild West. But fraud happens very often through the legacy banking system as well.

[DrTarantism]

I never said that all claims were paid or that all banks were equal. I simply said that Bitcoin is not the great solution people think it is. Its much worse than what you are describing. How many people who lost bitcoin funds were able to take their issues to courts? How many were able to turn to the police? What evidence can you take to court when every transaction is anonymous? And it makes sense for the bank to ask your mum to file a claim first. How else will they know if she is lying and trying to defraud the bank? And your comment about investment fraud, mortgage frauds and ponzi schemes are beyond the scope of this debate because those types of fraud are beyond the simple matter of financial savings and payments. Investments always carry a level of risk and are never guaranteed. Stop comparing apples and oranges to make your argument seem stronger

[meowface]

You're right, but Bitcoin does little to prevent fraud as well. The only kind of fraud Bitcoin prevents is "check's in the mail" type schemes, or fraud involving a customer trying to scam a vendor (by performing a chargeback after receiving a product, for example).

I think Bitcoin has a ton of great uses, but fraud protection is not one of them for consumers at least.

[fordh]

That's correct, but this shouldn't be understated. Bitcoin provides the ability to be sure that a transaction is legitimate when you're on the receiving end, and that the it can't be canceled later. This can be done without knowing anything about the person on the sending end, much less require a level of trust based on the sender's reputation.