[korzun]

Ukraine is broke. They owe Russia millions of dollars and have been living on pretty much free gas (courtesy of Russia).

I assume you live in US? Do you not find it ironic that you blame Russia for taking this seriously (in their own backyard) while US have been staging government coups within other countries (with multiple death tolls) for decades?

And in regards to corruption:

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

Perhaps you should focus on your own backyard first ;)

[rimantas]

Ah, good old one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

[taway98765]

Well, not quite. I won't waste my time to point out all the atrocities, millions of lives taken, billions of lives that usa destroyed all over the world so a bunch of corporations could get their hands on resources, new markets, so you could strengthen your military and economical grip of the world. All empires commit atrocities, you can be assured that where ever power is concentrated, innocent lives will be destroyed. Regardless of your education, your background, the amount of hours you spend on economic conventions being brainwashed to believe you are entitled, enlightened-enough to do "unpopular" decisions - biologically we all are the same animals we were 100, 200, 500 or even 5000 years ago. if we won't sober up from our overconfidence and ideological world-view of our selves as humanity, all we can hope for are different types of oppressive regimes changing periodically. .. everyone is corruptible - its time to build governments and institutions that take this as a fact(as you might guess I'm advocating measures against power concentration, and - since we're all selfish egocentric pigs who won't care about public matters until we see a direct, clear link to our wallets/environments etc .. OK I went already waaay too far..)

Sorry for the long(slightly off-topic) lead-in, enjoy(Harald Pinters Nobel Prize speech): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flvLfSSR1d4

[korzun]

I never stated that Russia was wrong. Let's make that very clear.

I'm simply amused at ignorance of people who have very little understanding of the situation but try to give their 2 cents.

If government of South Korea was overthrown by anti-US activists; US would be dispatching troops to protect their military basis and citizens within a split second.

And I will bet you that the death toll would be in hundreds within first few days.

[vasilipupkin]

Ukraine is broke to a large extent because it's economy has been essentially taken over by corrupt oligarchs with close Kremlin ties. As far as comparisons with U.S., in the context of the cold war U.S. has done some nasty things. But look at all the countries which U.S. was heavily involed in. Taiwan? South Korea? Chile? Germany ? Japan? How are they doing 20, 30 years later. Now look at countries that have had heavy Russian / Soviet involvement. Cuba? North Korea? Sorry, but the comparison doesn't quite compute.

[ajuc]

No need to look at countries with different history than Ukraine. Look at Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia or Romania.

All former soviet republics or sattelites. 20 years later all are modern democracies with much better economy than countries that had the bad luck to still be in "Russian sphere of influence".

[notastartup]

South Korea definitely had a period of dictatorship and hard knock life for it's citizens. I think Taiwan also had a period of such oppressive rule. Chile as well had dictatorship up to 90s.

At least South Korea is doing well because it has seen so much sacrifice of it's own people by enriching the nation's government and it's handful of conglomerates. They may be doing well but South Korea and Japan has the highest suicide rates, a sign that although economically prosperous do not equate to collective happiness. Chile for instance has a higher happiness index than of South Korea or Japan.

However, I will add that such economic progress is not at all miserable and unwanted situation. U.S. has provided much of the security guarantees and the environment for such successes.

[Demiurge]

You are entirely correct. All of these Asian economic successes were under a military dictatorship. The work week in South Korea is 6 days, 16 hours a day. It's not magic, it's really hard work and strictness.

[Demiurge]

How was Ukraine doing when it was taken over by uncorrupt Ushenko, whos wife is openly a CIA agent?

[laichzeit0]

From someone external to all of this, I don't think the US really has a foot to stand on when it comes to telling the rest of the world what to do militarily. The Iraq and Afganistan wars really leave a bad taste in my mouth. Where are those WMDs that the entire war was based on? I still remember seeing Cheney standing in front of the entire world and showing those bullshit pictures to the UN. They invaded a foreign country and killed people based on that bullshit.

[greedo]

First, you're conflating Afghanistan and Iraq. If you think that the US would sit by while Mullah Omar supported Al Qaeda camps after 9/11, you're greatly mistaken. Though the war in Afghanistan should have never entered a nation-building phase, it's hard to lump it with a war of choice in Iraq.

Also, I believe that you meant Colin Powell speaking to the UN. I don't believe VP Cheney made any presentations to the UN in the run up to the Iraq War.

[das_alexander]

That is the same logic as "I beat my wife because my neighbor does the same".

[ajuc]

And then "she went to police - police should told her to keep quiet and all would be well, right now I have to beat her up and it's all the fault of police - gave her funny ideas".

[notastartup]

I do see your point. US has to a certain degree have lost a lot of credibility especially with Afghanistan and Iraq. I definitely think Russia has the right to look out for it's own interests especially when US have been doing so for a long time now, often behind the veil of covert operations aimed at puppeteering elite ruling social class in different countries often through the usage of economic warfare through fronts like the World Bank and International Monetary Fund by freely giving loans and aids and in return taking their resources, be it oil or soldiers to fight their other armed conflicts. US is able to achieve this most of the time without the usage of force.