[vasilipupkin]

Ukraine is broke to a large extent because it's economy has been essentially taken over by corrupt oligarchs with close Kremlin ties. As far as comparisons with U.S., in the context of the cold war U.S. has done some nasty things. But look at all the countries which U.S. was heavily involed in. Taiwan? South Korea? Chile? Germany ? Japan? How are they doing 20, 30 years later. Now look at countries that have had heavy Russian / Soviet involvement. Cuba? North Korea? Sorry, but the comparison doesn't quite compute.

[ajuc]

No need to look at countries with different history than Ukraine. Look at Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia or Romania.

All former soviet republics or sattelites. 20 years later all are modern democracies with much better economy than countries that had the bad luck to still be in "Russian sphere of influence".

[notastartup]

South Korea definitely had a period of dictatorship and hard knock life for it's citizens. I think Taiwan also had a period of such oppressive rule. Chile as well had dictatorship up to 90s.

At least South Korea is doing well because it has seen so much sacrifice of it's own people by enriching the nation's government and it's handful of conglomerates. They may be doing well but South Korea and Japan has the highest suicide rates, a sign that although economically prosperous do not equate to collective happiness. Chile for instance has a higher happiness index than of South Korea or Japan.

However, I will add that such economic progress is not at all miserable and unwanted situation. U.S. has provided much of the security guarantees and the environment for such successes.

[Demiurge]

You are entirely correct. All of these Asian economic successes were under a military dictatorship. The work week in South Korea is 6 days, 16 hours a day. It's not magic, it's really hard work and strictness.

[Demiurge]

How was Ukraine doing when it was taken over by uncorrupt Ushenko, whos wife is openly a CIA agent?