[huhtenberg]

Way to quote by stripping away the context. Have you not been paying attention too? To things like history of Crimea or its geographical location, for example?

The question remains - what will invading Ukraine, strapped in debt and with nothing to offer, give the invaders to be? The brainless hysteria surrounding this situation is absolutely ridiculous. It's twice as ridiculous if you'd remember that Russians and Ukrainians generally treat each other as close relatives. Annoying at times, but still same blood basically. There are radical nationalists on both sides, but that's marginal. Just look at how Ukrainian team was welcomed at the Olympics - with an ovation. And how things were unfolding in Crimea - with flash-bang grenades and blanks.

It's not about Russia threatening Ukraine. It's about Russia paying back US and EU for stirring shit in Ukraine to drive it away from Russia. This is all macro-political. Ukraine is just a casualty caught in a cross-fire.

  --

Have I been paying attention? Yes, I have been. Have you though?

[stephenr]

> To things like history of Crimea or its geographical location, for example?

If history and geography trump the current citizens and laws, then the yanks should all fuck off back where they came from and leave it to the native americans and the mexicans, no?

> Have you though?

Enough to realise that something is fishy.

Russian troops invaded crimea, surrounded the Ukrainian military bases, and then declared it was all "legit" because a referendum had 96% voting in favour of joining Russia, despite polls from previous years showing 34% support.

All but 2 members of the UN Security Council voted to declare the referendum invalid - it was only defeated because Russia has veto power.

Your argument is that Russia doesn't get anything out of this. Like Putin is a completely rational guy who does shit because it makes sense, rather than because he's a whack job who pines for the "glory" of the USSR.

[dragonwriter]

> If history and geography trump the current citizens and laws, then the yanks should all fuck off back where they came from and leave it to the native americans and the mexicans, no?

Just the former. Because, you know, the latter, inasmuch as they are distinct from the former, have the same problem as "the yanks".

[stephenr]

You're saying the current day USA-Mexico border is the limit of where any pre-columbian Mexicans ever inhabited?

[dragonwriter]

I'm saying that "Mexican" isn't a meaningful description of any group of people that existed before the Spanish conquest.

[stephenr]

The people who inhabited what is modern day mexico.

before colonisation the native americans weren't called native americans or indians but that doesn't mean they didn't exist.

[eps]

> despite polls from previous years showing 34% support.

Link? Crimea has always been pro-Russian, to the extreme.

[stephenr]

http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/crimea-referendum-34-percent-n...

[eps]

Yeah, that's just some guy on US government payroll pulling numbers from thin air and an Ukrainian politician quoting some other guy who said this and that. That's not "polls from previous years showing 34% support" as you put it.

[stephenr]

Just some guy.. who happened to be Putin's economic advisor for 5 years.

[eps]

... who's now on US payroll.

Bottom line is that Crimea is massively pro-Russian. Unlike you I've actually been there multiple times and have friends who still live there. The overall sentiment has always been that Khrushev was an idiot to detach Crimea from Russia and "gift" it to Ukraine in the 50s. That 97% looks pretty damn close to the reality. If you are interested in this, take a look at BBC coverage of the referendum. The turnout and voting numbers were in fact all legit and no one was going to the voting booths under a gunpoint.