[nemesisj]

I really tend to struggle with Tesla whenever I read these kinds of things. On the one hand, I generally feel like they tend to shed light on areas where customers, the media, politicians, etc. are messing with them. On the other, something about the tactics they use seem...off. It's almost like they're bullying people who they don't like or disagree with. In this case, it seems like the guy and his lawyer are really just messing around and being dishonest, and it's a situation that Tesla can gain the upper hand on.

But.

What happens in 5 years when Tesla is 10x bigger than it is now, and doesn't do things so perfectly or well at scale? I really wonder if this type of almost-militant napalm style PR will be handled so deftly. What happens when they get it wrong? I think there's sufficient evidence that they already kind of blew it with the journalist they went after previously, and it just seems like no good will come from this culture over time.

So I'm conflicted. I love their products. I'm rooting for the company, but I do hate these kinds of whiny posts. Tesla is better than this, I hope.

[annon]

In this case, the lawyer is going to try to smear Tesla, hoping that they'll settle quickly to get him to shut up. Which more or less is extortion.

This is Tesla sending a message to all lemon law lawyers that they do not negotiate with terrorists. Seems fair to me.

[ztratar]

Exactly. Precedent is the foundation of the entire legal system. If you get one BS lawsuit based on dummed-up charges thrown out of court and show a history of working with customers, it will make all future similar legal cases much more difficult.

[erichurkman]

My partner worked in the legal claims department of a major (unnamed) vehicle manufacturer for a number of years. Even new agents were given massive empowerment dollars to shut lawyers up to keep them out of court. It really was an micro-industry unto itself, to the point that lawyers would get to know the company's defense agents from filing so many suits. Some cars did have problems, but not many. Most seemed to stem from awful lawyers and/or car dealers providing a terrible customer experience.

[flatline]

A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one...

[dragontamer]

A valuable quote from Fight Club, but reality is unfortunately different.

A $2 recall could have saved the lives of 13 with regard to the GM ignition switch problem, while the Nissan Airbag recall has only been attributed to 3 accidents (0 deaths, 0 injuries) while affecting a million vehicles.

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/01394d0c27844fa5be3fa6...

Companies (even standard ones, like Nissan) are willing to recall minor safety issues, while other companies are completely worthless at performing recalls (GM Ignition Switch).

[ZeroGravitas]

Many of Chuck Palahniuk's story ideas are inspired by real events. This one is a clear reference to the Ford Pinto:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#Allegations_and_laws...

[dragontamer]

Thanks for the link. Seems like a black swan story to me then, I guess I'm living in a different era because I've never encountered such a situation in my personal lifetime.

At worst, the current GM Ignition switch issue seems to demonstrate gross incompetence, or maybe groupthink. Engineers seemed to try and raise concerns, but there aren't any memos out there like the "Pinto Memo" that implicates upper-management.

------------

Another point, is that the Memo, as used by the prosecution of the case, was considered inadmissible evidence by the Judge. This leads me to believe that perhaps the memo was a grossly exaggerated story, or perhaps misrepresented in some way.

[kyleblarson]

This lawsuit definitely sounds frivolous, but it also makes me think of something my grandfather always used to say about getting involved in arguments that will only serve to make you look bad: don't piss with the skunks.

[vacri]

With this essay, they are going on record as saying "We can track what happens with the car; it's no longer your verbal word against ours".

The bit about the front trunk log is basically saying to these kinds of lawyers that Tesla is not low-hanging fruit, and that they better either have a genuine grievance or really know their stuff before taking them on. Better to announce it early and scare off some of the bad guys, rather than rinse, repeat the exercise every time. If users know that there are logs like these, then they're less likely to pull simple cons like these, and Tesla doesn't waste their mechanics' time in doing all the preliminary diagnostic work.

[ericd]

Lots of small efficiency differences like this seem like they will add up to Tesla being much more efficient than the existing manufacturers. Good move long term, IMO.

[waterlesscloud]

But there's a flip side to that.

As everyone reading this site knows, there's always a way around these measures. And someone somewhere is going to figure them out. And then sabotage the car, and it's going to hurt that Tesla has all this logging and it shows nothing fishy.

Not saying they shouldn't use the logging, but it's maybe not so smart to make it a point of contention and then incentivize the circumvention even more.

[conkrete]

Had this article never been written, I would never know one could sue over lemon laws. This blog helps people see inside a world that we might not otherwise. Surely something we don't remotely ponder on a day-to-day basis.

While I agree that publicizing frivolous arguments typically is uncalled for; Tesla has been the target of many attacks for which I initially thought were unsafe product design. If not for this blog I might think it's common for a Tesla to catch fire at random, or that they don't travel the advertised distances.

I think re-wording segments of these blogs to be more factual and less emotionally driven would be nice. The openess that they are trying to provide is at least noteworthy.

[rz2k]

Alluding to the New York Times article says that this combative strategy has worked. It's pretty clear that it was not a hit piece, but that has remained the common memory.

After the initial public letter, further details revealed that it was a battery issue that confused everyone involved. In fact, it was even a good design decision. If the car is parked in extreme cold, it will consume power in order to heat the battery so that it is not destroyed, thereby incurring a tens of thousands of dollars expense.

When the reviewer returned to the car parked in a freezing garage after his overnight stay at a hotel to find the projected battery range severely reduced, he telephoned support. It sounds like the support thought that the projected range was affected by the cold, and that warming it would by driving in a circle was likely to make the readings and projections sane again.

It didn't, and he decided to continue on with his trip. The recounting of the trip contained inaccurate details, that were not very material, about the climate control settings and speed. And, the review was generally inaccurate, because it reported that the ange was disappointing without noting the effect of the extreme cold. However, a mistake made in good faith is different than dishonest reporting.

In fact, the issue seems so nonobvious, that Musk himself failed to guess it. His public letter focused on whether the reporter drove over the speed limit, while making no mention of the car heating the battery overnight. Does the telemetry fail to log that power use, or was it so unusual that he didn't even think to look at that time frame?

It seems likely that all (three?) of them simply missed this autonomous heater as consuming a great amount of power. Even though it was a good design decision, since it prevents permanent damage to the battery, it is something relevant to a reviewer whose responsibility is reporting to his readership the real world experience of owning a car with technology they aren't used to.

Anyway, the strategy works, because people only remember that Musk went into detail and cited the car's telemetry. It ends up supporting the narrative that this reporter was one of the many people who unfairly attack the car. However, the real story is that unusual conditions like extremely cold weather can affect battery life, and they are unexpected enough that it isn't immediately obvious to an auto journalist, to the manufacturers' live telephone support, or Elon Musk himself.

That is a story, even if it wouldn't prevent anyone from buying the car. However, no one ever apologized for essentially calling the journalist's entire professional reputation into question. Furthermore, it is a reason for someone to worry that if there does ever turn out to be a serious design flaw, nitpicking over telemetry logs might be a bigger part of the experience than them quickly making good on the warranty.

Finally, I don't think the reporting on fires has been entirely unmerited as though it is so much more rare than it is in other new high end cars. Recall that once upon a time people referred to the Concorde as having a perfect safety record, until it didn't, and that that was due to there being so few rather than that it really was so much safer. I think it's great that Tesla has responded with very dramatic new safety measures, but the safety numbers weren't actually so far superior to anything else on the road.

[hatbert]

It's hard for me to square your assertion that the article was not a hit piece with the verbiage of the article. For example, the reporter used heavily loaded language to convey the idea (without saying so explicitly, because that would be a lie) that he had to turn off the heater and drive dangerously slow in order to reach the next charger. When called out on it, the Times' ombudsman wrote it off as sloppy note-taking. There were a series of such small 'mistakes.'

> However, no one ever apologized for essentially calling the journalist's entire professional reputation into question.

And why should they? It's true that unusually cold weather causes unusually high battery drain, but the fundamental reason the reporter ran of out charge is simply that he tried to. At his last "supercharger" stop, he unplugged the car about 30 minutes before it would have finished charging. Had he waited even an additional 5 minutes, there would have been more than enough charge to return to New York at a comfortable speed, even allowing for the cold weather overnight.

The reporter has nobody but himself to blame for his soiled reputation. Frankly, I think there was an interesting angle about the limitations of electric vehicles, but he tried to push the envelope a little too far. The cold weather limitations of the battery would have made for good reading. The need to plug in overnight and the amount of time required to charge in cold weather could have also been interesting points. Lost in the noise is the fact that he wasn't able to gain charge on a 120V outlet in cold weather (the battery heater used more power than the outlet provided).

But, no, he tried to shoot for the moon with a story about how you just can't trust these newfangled contraptions, and he burned his fingers. Boo hoo.

[cpwright]

Why is it uncalled for to publicize the lawsuit if it is frivolous? In general, it may be bad PR; but if you're willing to file a suit that is public. There is no reason to cede the initiative to the plaintiff if you think they are trying to manipulate you.

[danielweber]

For some reason, Elon Musk has a reality distortion field that works. Most people don't.

As start-up advice, I would say you don't have a reality distortion field. If you try arguing with a customer in public, you are very likely to lose, even if you are right on all the facts.

How Musk pulls this off is something I still don't understand, but don't think you can replicate it.

[adwn]

> How Musk pulls this off is something I still don't understand

Honesty, openness, lack of bullshit-bingo, the knowledge that he's in it for idealistic reasons first. It's not a reality distortion field if it's reality.

Of course I realize that to you, this sounds like I'm caught in his "reality distortion field".

[jamesaguilar]

Telling your side of the story is not "bullying" just because your side of the story is extremely compelling. Not to be too much of a prescriptivist, but it would be good if we reserved bullying for something with at least some remote connection to its original meaning, which is linked to injustice and violence of a verbal or physical form.

[TheMagicHorsey]

I see. So for a fear of future possible abuse by a future possibly big company, today we should ignore this blatant extortion attempt by a lawyer, in order to sympathize with this "poor, helpless" consumer?

This isn't a whiny post. This is exactly how companies should use social media to weed out these parasitic lawyers. Where the fuck is your concern for all these garbage costs that get put on the consumer because of these parasites? You should love this use of social media, because it actually makes our economy and legal system work better.

[Shivetya]

No, they should be using courts of law and not the court of public opinion to solve the case.

Once they win the later then they can take it to the former. Honestly what they are doing is in bad taste. You certainly don't go an attack like this.

I like Tesla's cars, I certainly don't like paying people to buy them and I really don't like tactics like this. Face it, if Ford or GM tried this stunt people here would be crawling up their ass.

[ntakasaki]

Did you see the viral video that the lawyer made?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUaelOgVXLe-1a3PUpob3upQ&...

Looks like Tesla is justified in trying to neutralize that slimy attempt at publicity.

[JaggedJax]

It's great when he is showing how the door handles take about 5 touches before they work. You can clearly see the rear lights flash as someone hits the unlock button right as it magically starts working.

[jabelk]

Jesus.

As someone on youtube noted, take a close look at around 0:50. You can see lights flash, which seems very likely to have been from someone unlocking the car. Right after, the door handles miraculously start working again. The whole thing reeks.

[oh_sigh]

Does anyone know how teslas behave when you touch their door handles? Do the rear lights ever flash?

[tadfisher]

I have a problem with this notion: they are being tried in the court of public opinion as we speak, the prosecution has made its case, the media has disseminated theirs, and you expect Tesla to take the high road and plead the fifth?

[delive]

I'm not sure I agree. This morning and yesterday, I saw several news articles about how Tesla was being sued for lemon laws. It seems reasonable to me for Tesla to defend it's position both to the public, and in the courts, which they are doing.

The comparison to Ford or GM doesn't really work as they wouldn't have such widely popular articles about being sued for lemon laws.

[danielweber]

"The remedy for bad speech is more speech."

I don't always agree with it -- sometimes lawsuits are necessary -- but Tesla is trying to resolve speech with speech.

[icelancer]

Huh? Tesla is simply rebutting every single ridiculous claim with data, over and over again. If that's "bullying" (are we ignoring the fact the consumer FILED A LAWSUIT here?), then Americans have really gotten way too sensitive.

[hosh]

I don't know if this comes off as whiny to me, but I get what you're saying. There is a sort of defensiveness to posts like this. They do have something to prove, after all, though it easily come across as having a chip on the shoulder. It also reminds me of interaction of software companies with customers. Sometimes, engineers get fixated on measurable things that they failed to see things that are not measured. Customer satisfaction is not easily captured by metrics.

I think it is fine the way it is now, and watch for when Tesla gets a lot bigger.

[ztratar]

This all feels like the necessities of politics. What I see here is likeley what enabled Musk to navigate the political arena with such ease -- he continually does the right thing but isn't scared to throw a jab in the opposite direction. When he applies the jab, he pushes it through with extreme force all while asking permission to stop and let the whole thing work it's course. At the same time he's playing other tactics that are lining his ducks up in a row.

These are classic power moves, tried and tried again throughout history. It seems Tesla, SpaceX, and Elon himself have them nearly mastered. Very impressive, IMO, even though it feels odd.

[burnte]

I agree that satisfaction is not easily measures, in this case the consumer is complaining that a fuse kept blowing, and when they decided to try to detect tampering, the fuse was magically fixed. Correlation is not causation, but sometimes it's a damn powerful indicator.

[mlieberman85]

I think this approach is a breath of fresh air given the track record of so many other companies that say "no comment."

In the end they're protecting their brand. For as long as they can they have to be the company that goes above and beyond when it comes to reliability, safety, customer satisfaction, etc. Otherwise they just end up becoming the next Fisker. It makes sense why they're so militant, especially given the media's often negative attention and how it can kill a small company (compared to the big car companies) like this.

[jfoster]

I think they are intentionally trying to build a reputation as a company that shouldn't be messed with. It may be saving them from a lot of this type of stuff. Additionally might be protecting them from negative reviews. I see your point about that, but it's also an interesting tactic from a company that knew it will be up against so many barriers.

[unreal37]

This strategy comes right from the top, I think. Elon Musk has always been "over the top" when it comes to defending Tesla from negative publicity.

The funny thing about this to me is that they report the trunk was opened immediately before the fuse blew each time. Ha! If you own a Tesla, you should know that they can monitor any action you take with that car.

But I don't blame them for this type of post. People attack them, and their defense is overwhelming.

[melindajb]

You're prematurely optimizing. Tactics that work at one level of growth, do not work at others. That is why leadership often, but not always, changes.

For example, take Microsoft. They were aggressive and bullying early on, because they had to be. Later on, those tactics when they were the dominant OS led to a pretty brutal DOJ situation.

For now, though Elon is doing what needs to be done to change the world. I applaud him. He's up against some seriously powerful forces: the oil industry, the automotive industry. This is just like a scrappy app startup going against Microsoft--times 100.

[IgorPartola]

I know exactly what you are talking about. They say all the right things but the tone is generally somewhat accusatory. I read the same thing between the lines in the response to the journalist running out of charge doing a long drive. Another example is the interview where Musl called the Prius a lawn mower when asked about electric cars and completely skirted around talking about the Chevy Volt (IMHO the best current plug-in drivetrain.)

[iancarroll]

To be fair what the lawyer is doing is obvious.

[IgorPartola]

Absolutely. And Tesla makes a great product. That is why I am surprised by how defensive and passive aggressive their tone seems at times.

[philmcc]

I hope someone writes a book about this one day -- the transition from being the underdog to the dominant player in the field. It seems like a very difficult transition, both for the contestant and the fan.

While I understand where you're coming from, it does feel a little bit about being conflicted over the possibility of a company doing something bad in the future.

[lugg]

Early adopters will almost always feel some kind of shafting when a company grows. Early adopters just aren't looking for the same things as the broader public. They can always try to have a less painful transition but I think the adopters need to start to learn how to meet companies half way.

[kodeninja]

The Master Switch, by Tim Wu, comes pretty close: http://www.amazon.com/The-Master-Switch-Information-Empires/...

[kmt]

Well, while small, "do things that don't scale". We'll see what they figure out later on.

[etler]

I think they're addressing a public complaint. When other companies provide vague responses or simply say "no comment", people complain. Tesla tries very hard to be faultless, apparently to a fault.

[irishjohnnie]

It looks like the Lemon King went public first and Tesla PR is just counter attacking.

[beedogs]

Pretty horrible comment, honestly. Seems like a bunch of idle speculation slathered in a good helping of parochialism.

[TwistVolt]

Tesla has a spine, called Musk. It may not be popular to push against sensation seeking lawyers or dealer networks but he does what's right, and in the end, that's all that really matters.

[cpwright]

If they don't do things so perfectly or well at scale, and then have a "bad attitude" about it, they will likely turn off customers, lose their stellar reputation, and will have less of a problem at scale. The market will provide an excellent feedback loop.

[bane]

I dunno. I feel a similar sense of discomfort. But at the same time, people will do crazy things to get attention, attacking a supremely popular company with an excellent reputation for reliability is not surprising.

[phaemon]

What a wonderful "concern trolling" post.

At no point do you actually mention anything that Tesla has done wrong in the slightest, yet you manage to imply that they're the bad guys in this scenario.

Thanks for your contribution to human culture.

[onetwofiveten]

Let me paraphrase what is going on here:

nemesisj's comment - "Tesla is probably in the right here, but their response to threats tends be heavy handed and defensive."

your comment - "Tesla is in the right, you are trolling. Snark."

I guess maybe you missed the point that Tesla can be the good guy in a lawsuit and still act in a way that seems unprofessional and worrying to a potential future customer.

[phaemon]

Don't paraphrase my posts; you're terrible at it.

At no point did I say that Tesla was in the right. I explicitly said that he hadn't mentioned Tesla doing anything wrong.