[melindajb]

If you can override the animal instincts to kill other humans, why is it so hard to override your thoughts and just treat all other humans with the same respect you'd give your best friend, at least until you see a valid reason not to?

No one is saying that getting a beer after work is bad, or telling jokes is bad, or that thinking is bad. this is hand waving. We're asking you, again, to a) understand that lots of drinking leads to situations where women are harassed; b) telling sexist, racist, homophobic jokes is not appropriate in any professional context, and that you should be human enough to override your animal instincts.

To be frank, your post comes off as irrational, and immature. You sound very young, and very entitled.

[your_throwaway]

With the same respect I treat my best friend?

Well, first: my best friend is a woman. And could you please enumerate for me what constitutes a sexist joke?

My aforementioned best friend (who I have had this conversation with) as well as most of the women friends I've had this conversation with agree that things like "dongle" jokes are hilarious.

So are racist jokes (do you seriously not tell any racist jokes? Ever? Do you avoid all of contemporary stand up and sketch comedy while you're at it?)

And very young. Huh? Like how young? Possibly right around the age of most of the people who are attending conferences and hackathons? Right around that 20-30 year old range that constantly gets touted as the age of startup founders on hacker news?

I'm 29. Old by HN standards, but you're right: young.

[codr]

> but you're right: young.

You forgot entitled.

Also - racist jokes, really? Tell us a good one.

[Tossrock]

How does every racist joke start?

(Pause)

looks over both shoulders

[melindajb]

Just because your best friend is a woman doesn't mean you're incapable of being a sexist. For example, she might be one of those women who enforce some pretty crappy old patriarchial shit. I have no idea. But it's not evidence you can use to say you aren't sexist. Are you trolling?

I do not tell racist jokes. ever. period. Why would I ever risk offending someone I really care about for something so stupid? I enjoy Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle, and Louis CK as much as the next person, but I make sure I understand why're they are funny, to laugh with them, not at them.

your simplistic thinking really makes me question a lot about you. Are you very young also? Perhaps you haven't heard stories from people you respect about the pain they've suffered in silicon valley? Because otherwise you wouldn't be so flippant, and so defensive about such things.

[sergiosgc]

The fact of the matter is that not telling racist jokes probably means you are racist. Mocking people for their faults is the most basic kind of humour. Stuff kids do in early school, to the point of being mean, and then scale back to socially acceptable levels. However, this is an humour class that never completely disappears. Whole comedian careers have been built on it (look at the TV show Seinfeld for an example).

When you actively avoid mocking someone because they have a visibly different skin tone, subconsciously you believe this is something they should be ashamed of. Racist, qed.

It is as ok to mock someone for being "african-american" as it is mocking someone for their closed Texan accent. And it is ok. Mock away, and take it in stride when it's your turn to be the target.

[your_throwaway]

Enlighten me.

And while you're at it: why is okay for Louis CK to make a racist joke, but not okay for you?

If the joke is hurtful, then shouldn't you be against Louis CK telling it? Why are you okay with that? Why are you giving him support for doing something hurtful?

And I didn't say I wasn't capable of being sexist because my best friend is a woman. I said that if I treated a woman at a conference the same way that I treated my best friend, I would probably come across as a creepy asshole.

Similarly, if I treated some guy walking down the street the same way that I treat my best friend, I'd probably get labeled as a creepy asshole.

I've known my best friend for over a decade. I'm close enough with her to have a shorthand for jokes, or mannerisms, that doesn't exist with random people I've just met.

My point was that your post is using some extremely faulty reasoning.

No I'm 12: who cares? What does it matter how old I am? Maybe I am a woman! Then what?

Does what I'm saying depend on my age, or its content?

Do you apply the same logic when assigning validity to things that men and women say? The content doesn't matter, just the person saying it?

That's...dare I say it? Possibly pretty sexist of you.

[jfarmer]

> And while you're at it: why is okay for Louis CK to make a racist joke, but not okay for you?

Why it is ok for the jester to mock the king, but not for the king to mock the jester?

On a related note, Louis CK is Mexican, as in a Mexican citizen born in Mexico. Spanish is his first language and he came to the US as a little kid.

[Dewie]

He's also pretty much as white as they get. He has mostly European ancestry, little indigenous American ancestry.

The subject was race, not nationality.

[jfarmer]

We were talking about "racism" and "racist jokes." If you don't think the fact that Louis CK is Mexican but everyone thinks he's American plays into why and how his comedy works, we can agree to disagree. :)

[melindajb]

Louis CK, to the best of my knowledge, is not considered a racist. I would not be the best judge of that as a white person, and when I am, I look to my black friends to tell me. I don't make them "explain" it to me. I just accept it. The know better than I do what makes something racist. And usually it's something I had never considered because of my white privilege.

The fault, is not in my logic, but your dogged insistence on reductionist thinking to the absurd. Most of the men around me know how not to be a creep, so I an assure it is possible to tell funny jokes, have beers with coworkers without harassment, and other such things. They will ask if they aren't certain, and they listen if I ask them to stop doing something.

That's what it's all about. Not reducing people to stereotypes. Giving respect immediately and willingly. At least until the other person demonstrates they aren't worth it.

So all this handwaving about not knowing how to behave in the world because the girls send mixed signals? Horseshit. my tribe of male friends, coworkers, mentors, advisors, and family is living proof that men do know how to behave honorably and respectfully in Silicon Valley, even Stanford trained engineers.

So instead of putting your questions at me, put them at yourself, why have you not yet learned what so many other successful men have learned?

[melindajb]

really, I eat downvotes for breakfast. so thanks!

[LockeWatts]

This isn't Reddit, stop whining.

[calibraxis]

I hope you also eat upvotes, because some of us appreciate your perspectives!