[Argorak]

Sure. I also see a difference between a company asking everyone for that data in a clear fashion and one that tries get hold of every scrap of data from its users, even if it has to do with non-users (e.g. by collecting their address books).

To be clear about address books: they are "yours", but they hold data that you may not have permission to give away.

[spacehome]

Facebook can ask me all they want for my data, and I won't give it to them. The feds literally don't give me a choice.

[Argorak]

That is true, but moral standpoints are not black/white and Facebooks moral standpoint in the whole privacy debate isn't quite the strongest. Facebook will basically take any interaction with them as a "yes".

Also, Facebook didn't ask me when my friends gave my phone number and address to them.

Zuckerberg has repeatedly shown a lot of moral flexibility on those issues - so the irony is definitely there.

[spacehome]

ok, I concede that point, but none of my friends are giving my info to the NSA, either.

[Argorak]

Sure, but we are still talking about Zuckerberg trying to make a moral argument about vast personal data collection.

[XorNot]

I hope you don't know anyone who uses Facebook, takes a picture with you in it and puts it on Facebook, or you know, have any web presence at all.

Of course to some extent I would also argue this is where things get grey - in a practical sense, private individuals do not, and have never, existed in civil society. Civil society necessitates making parts of your life public.

[halviti]

Facebook was caught red handed profiling literally everyone on the internet.

Every website that you ever visited with a "like" button, even porn sites. They compiled all of that information about "you" via cookies they put on your computer.

[DanBC]

Facebook collects data about people who are not its users.

[argumentum]

> they hold data that you may not have permission to give away.

Well that would be on you not Facebook.

[Argorak]

No, that would be on the person giving them the data _and_ on Facebooks side to check. Facebook never got permission, because the agent giving them the data is not allowed to give permission.

They also cannot make a reasonable assumption that the agent giving away the data _has_ permission and is lying to them.

[argumentum]

There is no concept of "permission" here as freedom of speech is more important. If you don't want people to have your info, don't give it to people. You are perfectly entitled to "unfriend" someone (in real life) if they give away your data without your permission.

Yahoo, hotmail etc, they all used to scoop up contacts when users (willingly, just like they do with facebook) agreed to give them access in exchange for services rendered.

This is totally different from the government (a third party to either transaction) forcing Facebook to give them data (or stealing face book's data).