[msluyter]

My first thought is that the monitors would be way too far away for someone with poor eyesight like myself. Which reminded me...

At my last dentist appointment I was thinking about how comfortable the chair was and wondering whether you could set up a workstation with one (perhaps with totally separated right and left hand keyboards so your arms rest at your sides?) To make it work, I think you'd need monitors on like boom arms essentially suspended above you. Anyone tried something like this?

[arethuza]

I remember a visit to the dentists where the local anesthetic went into a vein/artery/something and I nearly passed out - the dentist activated some feature of his dental chair that rapidly put me in a position where my feet were higher then my head - helping keep me conscious.

I would quite like that feature to help me cope with some conference calls. It could even be automated - if I haven't said anything in 10 minutes kick the chair back...

[jader201]

Unfortunately, my chair would remain in that position the majority of the time.

And yes, I'm looking for a new job.

[zatara]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trendelenburg_position

[god_bless_texas]

I like you.

[TaylorAlexander]

I've thought about this recently, and the solution is the Oculus Rift or some incarnation of VR. Mounting the monitors is really the only major technical challenge to the setup you describe, and not being able to adjust your distance to mounted monitors would also be a real problem. The current Rift dev kit does not have sufficient resolution to do computer work, and the new units still will not have nearly the pixel density of modern monitors, but what you lose in pixel density you gain in screen real estate.

The rift basically surrounds you in a digital environment, and a few people have already started to show off desktop environments that work in VR. Working at your computer in VR means a few major benefits:

-Your workstation is no longer defined by the physical space it resides in, so it can go with you wherever you want, such as on the train, in your self-driving car, etc.

-Your workspace is no longer limited to several constrained rectangles in front of you - you pay for a single display device and get a workspace that literally surrounds you.

-You are no longer required to sit upright staring forward, something we have generally acknowledged isn't good for you. Some people spend more money on a nice chair than the cost of an Oculus Rift just to save their back. Not needing to stare forward to view monitors means you can work in any orientation, such as a comfortable reclined position. The staple of starship captains and movie hackers, the reclined "dentist" style chair is generally represented in movies as the way people would sit if they had sufficient resources, such as their own hollywood set building team.

-Your workspace is 3D, but not gimmick 3D monitor style - actual immersive 3D, so your applications could take advantage of this for more contextual information and improved workflow.

-You have total privacy - no one can see what you are working on in VR, so no one can look over your shoulder. That is until they make virtual coworking spaces. Which will happen.

-Your workspace can be flying through the cosmos, on a beach in Aruba, on a NASCAR track, or anywhere else you find interesting. You could be immersed in front row seats of a live tennis match while you work on your TPS reports. You could work on new VR applications inside of your new VR applications, for the ultimate inception "yo dawg" moment.

Cons: We will become like the people in WALLE.

But... will we? I work from home. I have a standard desktop and 3 monitors. I wake up, walk to the kitchen, make breakfast, then walk to the office to work. Google shopping Express delivers my groceries. Amazon delivers most of my other goods. If I had a self driving car I wouldn't even need to participate in my own transportation when it was needed. What does this mean? It means the future is already on it's way to becoming so convenient that a nearly 100% sedentary lifestyle is entirely possible even for first world people who maintain full employment. For people like me, a dentist chair and virtual reality workstation will not make me any more sedentary - I took 300 steps the other day. I can't really hit much lower of a limit on that.

All this means is that I need to take control of my own exercise routine. I need to force myself to work out, as my daily life does not provide sufficient exercise as is. People who do not do this will become fat, like those in WALLE. But being fat is clearly regarded as unhealthy, and our society is becoming aware of the dangers of unchecked obesity. As we get a handle on appropriate health care in the first world, we will need to encourage people to work out.

For now, I ride a bike, but if I had a self driving car that could take me to the gym while I worked on email, perhaps I'd get out and socialize more.

Rant/Aside: People are pretty dismissive of some of the amazing new tech coming out. Amazon wants to totally eliminate the cost of human labor for delivering goods by using drones, and people just say "but yeah Skynet haha. It's dumb anyway". Virtual reality is actually happening and it's a revolutionary new kind of display device that I know will change the world, and people say "but yeah the virtual boy sucked. this is just more hype, VR will never happen, or it doesn't matter." Robotics in general can change the nature of how we consume things by eliminating all human costs. Robots have fixed costs that can be amortized down to nearly zero for incremental labor, something that is not possible for human workers. We should embrace the technology of the future and figure out how it can be used to do positive things, rather than dismiss it for it's capability to do bad. Skynet jokes are old hat. Lets talk about how much better we can make the future.

Another note: Virtual reality and telepresence can eliminate the "AI problem" for robots - that is, we have been able to make robots that can do neat stuff for a long time, but giving them any intelligence has been a so far intractable problem. A remote human operator could control a robot worker with much more precision than our current AI technology, transporting human intelligence into a robot and eliminating the need for comprehensive AI. VR enables 1:1 viewing of remote 3D environments, something a monitor does not provide. This will lead to both good and bad new technology, but as they say - you take the good with the bad.

[3rd3]

I didn’t read it all, but you don’t seem to mention keyboards which we still have to align our bodies to. Voice input is distracting to your immediate environment, gestures are non-optimal because of the lack of tactile feedback.

[TaylorAlexander]

I'm not sure how you could expect to participate in the discussion without reading the thing you are replying to, but you are correct, I don't mention keyboards. Using a keyboard while in a reclined position isn't really a challenge so I didn't think it needed mentioning - you can put one on a plank across your lap, or use a split keyboard on the armrests. But mounting monitors in a comfortable position is mechanically difficult.

[3rd3]

    Your workstation is no longer defined by the physical space it resides in, so it can go with you wherever you want, such as on the train, in your self-driving car, etc.

I was referring to this sentence. The input device will probably keep being restricting until we have BCIs.

But I agree that it sounds like a great idea having a virtual half-sphere surrounding you and it would certainly be a relief for the neck at least.

[TaylorAlexander]

Ah, yeah that makes sense. You would definitely be limited in input while mobile, but at least it would be possible to bring your workspace with you. The good news is, VR has already spawned an incredible amount of research in more natural human computer interaction, so hopefully some of these input problems will be better solved. Most of the input problems being tackled over the last few years have to do with touch screens, which can never be as useful as purpose-built interaction hardware. Keyboards aren't as useful when you can't see them, and VR no longer requires being at a desk, so with any luck we will see real headway in high quality new text input and interaction devices soon.

[Cthulhu_]

I'm skeptical about using the Oculus or any kind of fixed monitor screen hovering in front of my eyes; I tend to move back and forth while working, adjusting distance to the screen as the day passes. I think working with screens at a fixed distance would make your eyes stay locked to a certain focus amount for too long and you'd lose the little motions you'd otherwise do, not to mention the extra weight on your head.

[TaylorAlexander]

The current Oculus prototypes and all future versions of the Rift feature translational head tracking as well as rotational tracking, so leaning forward brings you closer to the content in front of you. The general goal of the system is to avoid having it feel like there is anything fixed to your head, and it appears that they will succeed in delivering this to consumers by the end of this year. Google for their Crystal Cove prototype for more videos showing it off.

As far as the weight, it's not any heavier than a pair of beats headphones, or the gaming headphones I already wear at my desk. It's mostly a display, some lenses, and a bunch of empty space - it's not too heavy. Plus you have the benefit of a more comfortable sitting position.

[matznerd]

I've used the crystal cove and I actually had an experience that is pretty much your example. I was in the demo where you fly around and in the cockpit there was a screen down near my legs and to the right that was unreadable from my normal vantage point. When I brought my head forward and turned to the side, I was able to then read the text on the screen. It was really surreal.

[amagumori]

i think the real worry is the long-term impact of having your eyes focused at infinity (as they are in the rift). there have been a bunch of reports of people having focusing weirdness after using the rift for a while. not a big deal, sure, but what happens after using the oculus for 5, 10 years?

[idlewan]

It could also just mean that you should expect 'focusing weirdness' when you adapt to the rift, for the first few days. It could be harmless.

Humans are masters at adaptation. I guess we should just wait and see.

[darkmighty]

Focus 3D: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5XS4-hFgCs

[skeletonjelly]

Sorry, I stopped reading at Oculus Rift. Have you used one? They're pretty intense on the eyes. I'm not sure if this will improve or not though. Also you'd need to look away every 20 mins or whatever is recommended so you wouldn't go crazy shortsighted. Same as screens I guess.

[TaylorAlexander]

So you stopped reading at the first sentence, but still want to participate in the conversation... excellent.

I have used one. I understand that the current dev kit isn't high res, doesn't have translational tracking, and generally isn't comfortable for long term use. If you hadn't stopped reading halfway through the first sentence you would have seen that I said "the Oculus rift or some incarnation of VR", which was an acknowledgement that the Oculus rift may not be ideal for this when the consumer version is released, but I believe some incarnation of VR will be.

Saying it won't work because you've tried the hurriedly prepared low res dev kit is like saying smart phones will never take off because your QVGA windows mobile 5 phone is too low res for web browsing. Technology evolves if people find it compelling enough to buy it. Every honest reviewer I have read says the Oculus rift is an amazing experience unlike anything we've ever been able to experience. I have no doubt that the 1080p versions they are demoing now will give way to 4k versions in a few years (if not sooner), and that eventually working in a rift will be as comfortable as can be.

Tech is never fixed in stone.

[fyrabanks]

"Virtual reality and telepresence can eliminate the 'AI problem' for robots"

Yes, I suppose it's easy to eliminate any unsolved problem if you simply give up on it.

PS Maybe take it easy on the Adderall.

[TaylorAlexander]

It is a problem in the sense that companies could commercialize robots for the home if there were applications for the robots. Currently the hardware is good (Honda first debuted ASIMO 14 years ago). Commercializing the hardware would drive costs down, which would allow us to do more widespread research on AI. Currently a decent robotics research platform costs more than a Tesla Model S, and until recently they were 10x more expensive.

The "AI problem" is the fact that robots don't have many applications until we have AI. The problem can be eliminated by making the hardware useful even without AI. This does not mean people will stop working on AI, just that robotics hardware development can be decoupled from AI development. More robots out there will make it even easier to develop AI for robotic platforms.

Your Adderall comment seems to be a way of poking fun at me, and if so does not seem to contribute to this discussion. I thought I contributed something thoughtful to HN. Would you prefer I just make snarky comments? I left Slashdot years ago so I could find people who make an effort to think and communicate - lets do that here.

[Blahah]

I appreciated your comment. Fwiw I think a lot of people here do make an effort to think and communicate. HN has brilliant technical and intellectual discussions interspersed with snide jabs and throwaway put-downs. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater :).

[TaylorAlexander]

Thanks! Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere. I've been lurking for a long time, and I'm enjoying actually contributing my thoughts today. I hope to make a habit of it. :)

[mvleming]

I think so: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/wp-content/uploads/2014...

Caption that went with the photo:

> Engineering manager Scott Goodson reclines in the reclining workstation he built at Facebook HQ.

From: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/03/facebook-paper/

Edit: Added caption.

[lowmagnet]

For those who want to know about that particular chair, it's a Zero-gravity Chair from Human Touch. I've got a much older version of that chair, and it's kinda busted, but when I have the floor space set up for it, it's an awesome recliner.

Big problem though: it rotates its full height to the horizontal so you have to have it practically in the middle of an area so it can lean back and not hit the wall.

[User8712]

This makes me wonder, would it be better for your posture to lay on your back, while looking straight up at a screen? I mean, go lay on a carpet floor or on your bed, flat on your back, with your knees bent for comfort. Then imagine a screen a couple of feet in front of your eyes, and a keyboard/mouse angled as well.

Wouldn't this give you perfect posture? It forces your back, neck and head to be straight. You can't lean forward because gravity forces your head into position. The above chair most likely offers some similar benefits since it's reclined so far back.

[idlewan]

I've tried that. On my bed, with my laptop face down on this (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Metal-Folding-Laptop-Table-Fo...) and an external 60% keyboard.

It felt great at first, but there was two major problems for me:

- with the laptop desk I had to slide under it each time I wanted to use the computer and grab the external keyboard, which isn't instantaneous like getting up/sitting down.

- I was waaaayyyy too sleepy lying on my bed. Had 2 minutes micro-naps all the time.

Right now I still often program in my bed, but with the screen vertical and at eyes height on the laptop desk, and my back resting against a bean-bag chair. It's much more comfortable than a standard desk-chair combination, I recommend people try it. I avoid the use of a mouse, however, and my laptop is configured to be very keyboard-friendly, so there's also that to be taken into account. Using a mouse isn't impossible, but I'm much more performant without one.

[sdegutis]

That looks really comfortable, but it'd probably be annoying to get in and out of it, not only for the steepness of the chair, but also because of all the cords.

[matznerd]

I don't understand why he didn't wrap the cords around the sides?

[Void_]

But should it be that comfortable? Are we gonna end up like this http://www.sickchirpse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Wall-E... ?

Sent from my standing desk, obviously.

[sogen]

My thoughts exactly. Little by little, we're getting closer to that future...

[strozykowski]

My dad is a dentist, and when he updated his equipment in his office, he brought home one of the chairs (without all of the extra attachments). It took 3 moving guys to lift the damn thing, and it sat in our finished basement for half a decade.

It was kind of comfortable, but it was from the 70s (and was a terrible shade of mint green) so it wasn't super ergonomic. It was fun to ride up and down on, though.

[bduerst]

Have you watched Grandma's Boy? JP has that exact setup.

[babby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLR3faI7lU

[samelawrence]

"and JP's a prodigy".

[kendalk]

> with totally separated right and left hand keyboards

The latest Ruby Rogues podcast discussed a new "Ergodox" split ergonomic keyboard with open hardware. You can build them yourself and customize them.

http://ergodox.org/

The discussion is at 1:08:30 in Episode 147 (March 12, 2014) at http://rubyrogues.com/

[dfc]

There are a lot of folks on /r/mechanicalkeyboard that like this setup. I wanted to put one together but I have been on the massdrop request list for a little while now. Buying the parts for one KB is cost prohibitive. I am going to make an oak/cherry case for mine.

[mharrison]

If you have access to a 3d printer (to make the cases) you won't save much by going through massdrop. It is convenient though (says someone who has bought one from two different drops).

Another ergodoxer ordered his own parts and they weren't much more than massdrop

[matznerd]

Know anything about a split kinesis style keyboard?

[solomone]

I use one, they're pretty nice. The biggest gain for me was the minimal effort needed to register a keypress.

[idle_processor]

Ergodox[0] provides split keyboard kits. There are some boom-style mounted monitor workstations vaguely in the vein of the NovelQuest Emperor[1] but I have yet to see one at a remotely sane price point.

I also haven't seen the monitor mounts discrete from built-in seating, though it doesn't seem outside of the realm of possibility. One could realistically place a large A-frame styled wooden structure over a La-Z-Boy chair and mount generic monitor arms onto it via clip or screw.

So, the main challenges are just carpentry and cable management.

[0]http://ergodox.org/

[1] http://imgur.com/m0qsNnU

[davvid]

If you don't mind going low tech you don't need the split keyboard. Just use two usb keyboards, one for each hand. You can actually get quite productive that way. I did this for a while before discovering kinesis keyboards.

The downside is that it takes up more space, but it can be quite comfortable.

[edwinyzh]

Yes, I have just discovered this recently, but the right hand mouse is still too far away.

[mharrison]

Love me my ergodox with about a for of separation between the halves. I call it Star Trek position.

[GigabyteCoin]

Your basically just described a scene featuring Joel David Moore (as JP) in Grandma's Boy:

http://youtu.be/bHLR3faI7lU?t=12s

I still think of that setup years after having seen the movie.

[mattlutze]

Perhaps the "Emperor" workstation[0][1]?

[0]: http://www.gizmag.com/emperor-1510-workstation-mwe/21412/

[1]: http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/06/13/the-emperor-the-ultim...

[sean-duffy]

You mean like this?

http://www.mwelab.com/index.php/en/products/emperor-1510

[kevinrpope]

According to the tech specs: "the Emperor will tilt backward up to 25 degrees"

This doesn't strike me as quite like the dentist chair experience where you're lying back almost flat.