[10feet]

If you really lived in the UK you would now that lots of people complain about everything, all the time. Especially the NHS.

Now, that doesn't change the point that universal health care exists in most countries, and they are better of for it.

[basicallydan]

Actually, strictly speaking I do live in France at the moment, so your bizarre implication is actually true - but I did just move here 7 days ago.

Anyway, yes people do complain about the NHS in general, for all sorts of reasons, but I'd wager that most people don't complain about the fact that we have the NHS, and realise that it's actually really great compared to the situations in countries which don't have universal healthcare. Just a clarification, really.

[vidarh]

Everyone complains about the NHS, but NHS runs yearly surveys about how pleased people are with various parts of the service, and it consistently shows about 2/3 or more are satisfied with most of the NHS services and NHS as a whole. Some exceptions, and there was a huge, temporary dip in 2011 (coinciding with massive spending squeeze), but overall NHS is one of those things everyone complains about because a) everyone cares about health, and a large proportion of us is in contact with NHS every year; b) there's always tension between how much we're willing to spend and how much we want - you can always spend more on healthcare.

The best evidence for the depth of support for the NHS, in my eyes, is that the Conservatives fought tooth and nail against establishing it. But within a year or so after it was introduced, they realised they'd never get elected again ever if they kept arguing to have it dismantled, as the NHS has consistently had vastly higher public support than either they or politicians in general have. So today they're resigned to cutting spending and increasing private provisioning of services within the NHS.

[cwaniak]

I'm a Polish guy with US passport who spent many, many years in the USA and my feeling is as follows: In the US people complain about one single thing regarding the healthcare - cost. In Poland they'll complain about long waiting lists, not enough doctors, not sufficient care, basically everything is worse than in the US - except the cost.

I for one don't think that the major objective of healthcare system is not to bankrupt people. Its main objective is to safe life. I wish more people would be worried about saving lives more than money.

[asabjorn]

Most countries with socialized healthcare systems that I am aware of actually has a longer life expectancy than the USA. This is true for Canada, Germany, Norway, etc.

I do not know if life expectancy is a measure for quality of health care, but it is at least an indicator of how good the general health is.

On a personal note I would say that my experience with the US health care system has left a lot to be desired, and I experienced the care as better in my native Norway. That said, my girlfriend is a doctor and her health plan seems a lot better so my experience can be anecdotal.

[cwaniak]

> Most countries with socialized healthcare systems that I am aware of actually has a longer life expectancy than the USA. This is true for Canada, Germany, Norway, etc.I do not know if life expectancy is a measure for quality of health care, but it is at least an indicator of how good the general health is.

I agree. Actually Poland which is 2nd world country really, has better life expectancy that USA! However, this doesn't mean that Polish healthcare system is superior to American. This means that if all you do whole life is eating, stressing out at work, having no friends with family 2 time zones away, and zero exercise - even the best healthcare system in the world won't help you. So while I agree that people live longer in most civilized places than in the US, I still claim that the US healthcare system as long as money isn't a major concern for you - it is just the best system in the world, period. But even they can't help you if you have been on McDonald's diet foe the past 20 years and the most exercise you do is 10 meters from home to car.

> On a personal note I would say that my experience with the US health care system has left a lot to be desired, and I experienced the care as better in my native Norway. That said, my girlfriend is a doctor and her health plan seems a lot better so my experience can be anecdotal.

Not sure how good they would be about it in Norway, but in the US they diagnosed me with Ehlers Danlos type 2 in a matter of weeks while in Poland literally dozens of doctors I visited didn't know what's going on. In my particular case, where the condition in from 1 in 3,000 to 1 in 50,000 the major incentive to find out what's wrong with me for the doctors was really fear for me suing them. Again, money in this system really works both ways. I said my insurance company, you test me genetically for ehlers danlos or I sue your ass. They paid $6k for testing and I was tested positive. From perspective now I think that in Poland some doctors at least knew or suspected my condition but had no incentive to do anything. And money or loosing it is a great incentive.

[asabjorn]

Yes, I agree that the USA is the best healthcare system for people with money and/or great insurance.

I do not know which insurance is great and how many people has access to this. I do however know that when I tried to read my plan, the legalese was so dense that it such as well have been written i Japanese.

My University of California at Davis group insurance plan costs $500 per quarter, and that rate is given for a pool of generally healthy young students. Do you know what a startup person has to pay for a great health care plan? Is a obamacare plan good?

[cwaniak]

Obamacare has many plans in it to choose from. I don't save on "these things" and get as expensive as I can.

[rurban]

> Actually Poland which is 2nd world country really, has better life expectancy that USA!

Which is easy to explain the US also being just a 2nd world country. The difference is that the US standards are falling and the other 2nd world countries are mostly rising.

[cwaniak]

I wish Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, NASA, Boening, Goldman Sachs, et, etc were from Poland. Only 1 st world economy can dominate economically rest of the world. That the voters don't agree on free lunch doesn't make them automatically 2nd world country.