[asabjorn]

Most countries with socialized healthcare systems that I am aware of actually has a longer life expectancy than the USA. This is true for Canada, Germany, Norway, etc.

I do not know if life expectancy is a measure for quality of health care, but it is at least an indicator of how good the general health is.

On a personal note I would say that my experience with the US health care system has left a lot to be desired, and I experienced the care as better in my native Norway. That said, my girlfriend is a doctor and her health plan seems a lot better so my experience can be anecdotal.

[cwaniak]

> Most countries with socialized healthcare systems that I am aware of actually has a longer life expectancy than the USA. This is true for Canada, Germany, Norway, etc.I do not know if life expectancy is a measure for quality of health care, but it is at least an indicator of how good the general health is.

I agree. Actually Poland which is 2nd world country really, has better life expectancy that USA! However, this doesn't mean that Polish healthcare system is superior to American. This means that if all you do whole life is eating, stressing out at work, having no friends with family 2 time zones away, and zero exercise - even the best healthcare system in the world won't help you. So while I agree that people live longer in most civilized places than in the US, I still claim that the US healthcare system as long as money isn't a major concern for you - it is just the best system in the world, period. But even they can't help you if you have been on McDonald's diet foe the past 20 years and the most exercise you do is 10 meters from home to car.

> On a personal note I would say that my experience with the US health care system has left a lot to be desired, and I experienced the care as better in my native Norway. That said, my girlfriend is a doctor and her health plan seems a lot better so my experience can be anecdotal.

Not sure how good they would be about it in Norway, but in the US they diagnosed me with Ehlers Danlos type 2 in a matter of weeks while in Poland literally dozens of doctors I visited didn't know what's going on. In my particular case, where the condition in from 1 in 3,000 to 1 in 50,000 the major incentive to find out what's wrong with me for the doctors was really fear for me suing them. Again, money in this system really works both ways. I said my insurance company, you test me genetically for ehlers danlos or I sue your ass. They paid $6k for testing and I was tested positive. From perspective now I think that in Poland some doctors at least knew or suspected my condition but had no incentive to do anything. And money or loosing it is a great incentive.

[asabjorn]

Yes, I agree that the USA is the best healthcare system for people with money and/or great insurance.

I do not know which insurance is great and how many people has access to this. I do however know that when I tried to read my plan, the legalese was so dense that it such as well have been written i Japanese.

My University of California at Davis group insurance plan costs $500 per quarter, and that rate is given for a pool of generally healthy young students. Do you know what a startup person has to pay for a great health care plan? Is a obamacare plan good?

[cwaniak]

Obamacare has many plans in it to choose from. I don't save on "these things" and get as expensive as I can.

[rurban]

> Actually Poland which is 2nd world country really, has better life expectancy that USA!

Which is easy to explain the US also being just a 2nd world country. The difference is that the US standards are falling and the other 2nd world countries are mostly rising.

[cwaniak]

I wish Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, NASA, Boening, Goldman Sachs, et, etc were from Poland. Only 1 st world economy can dominate economically rest of the world. That the voters don't agree on free lunch doesn't make them automatically 2nd world country.