[jonnathanson]

It's the "get high-paying jobs on graduation" aspect of these programs that's never quite gelled for me. I can think of very few jobs I'd be solidly qualified for after a few months of training, no matter how intense the training. Engineering seems no different, and maybe even harder than most. People should be enrolling in bootcamps to learn the basics, not to get some sort of shortcut to a theoretically sexy job -- the true sexiness of which is entirely unknown unless and until they've actually tried it.

If these programs were/are feeding internships, awesome. That's a different story. And on that note, I see no reason why big tech companies can't create their own coding academies, or partner with bootcamps on more structured working internships and externships. The bootcamp --> full-time job connection doesn't make a ton of sense. But bootcamp --> internship --> job makes more sense.

There are a lot of smart, hard-working people out there who, for one reason or another, just never got a deep exposure to computers in childhood, high school, or college. (Reliable childhood access to a decent-quality computer, much less programming resources, is not as common as we might expect.) Giving them a shot at learning is a noble and justifiable endeavor. Not all of them will enjoy it, and not all of them will make it through. But a lot of them might. They need to be going into it with the right expectations, though.

[busterarm]

Legal internships require you to be in a degree program, so it's not a good path for those of us who are older and looking for a career change.

I have the aptitude and experience to do well in an internship, if I could get one. Having to go from bootcamp to internship would cut off the only structured path available to land a programming job, short of going back into a degree program which is both undesirable and financially not feasible.

I'm in a bootcamp right now that I don't entirely need, but I'm building up my GitHub account and looking at following up with something like thoughtbot's Apprentice.io or (if I'm crazy lucky) getting into ThoughtWorks' junior developer program rather than trying to get a job with a large salary. I want to learn the ropes in this industry by consulting.

Edit: Also, if anyone reading this is looking to hire someone junior (and degreeless) and is committed to training, we should talk. Relocation is not a problem and neither is making an extended commitment on my end (as far as time and/or compensation). I do have a tech background, just not in dev. (Sorry, I gotta hustle! :D)

[jonnathanson]

"Legal internships require you to be in a degree program"

Fair point, so let's take this a step further and make it something other than an internship. A training program, perhaps. An apprenticeship program, wherein you're paired up with a recognized master/mentor on a team, working on an actual product that will actually ship.

Seems to me that the biggest hurdles are the regulations surrounding what an "internship" requires. So let's hack internships.

[busterarm]

The two companies that I mentioned are doing a good job at that but they're surely outliers. Also, only making $12/hr for 3 months in New York City is a big hardship, but not as big as paying for a bootcamp.

I think the biggest problem is most selection processes will merely maintain the demographic status quo for the industry. How do you rank older people pivoting careers and folks with the aptitude but no degree or industry experience where they'll be on a fair footing with all of the new CS grads who will be applying who could otherwise land a job anyway?

[jonnathanson]

"How do you rank older people pivoting careers and folks with the aptitude but no degree or industry experience where they'll be on a fair footing with all of the new CS grads who will be applying who could otherwise land a job anyway?"

I think that's why the internship structure is crucial. Or maybe it's an externship. Or a part-time thing. Generally speaking, I would not put undergrad CS students at top universities into the same internships as I'd put recent grads of crash-course bootcamps. Bootcampers go into a different pool, in different roles, unless and until they graduate to better positions of more responsibility. If a bootcamper kicks serious ass and demonstrates him/herself just as good as a CS-trained graduate, then awesome, he/she can get fast-tracked into the regular job pool.

The goal of these programs should be to create runways for the career switchers and experience-deprived folks who show a decent aptitude for the profession. This would be a supplement to traditional recruiting pathways, rather than a conflict with or cannibalization thereof.

[enraged_camel]

>>And on that note, I see no reason why big tech companies can't create their own coding academies, or partner with bootcamps on more structured working internships and externships.

You mean actually train people? Don't be ridiculous. Why do that when you can just fire and replace? /s