[mindcrime]

Sure, if you get caught, you compensate / reimburse the victim. If you don't get caught... well, sometimes you get lucky. But that's no different than how we do things now. Not everybody gets caught. It sucks, but it's reality.

But the idea that we're going to "extra punish" a handful of people here and there to "make an example out of them" is totally incompatible with any reasonable notion of "justice" .

[rayiner]

That's not "justice." That's blanket license for a violent minority to prey upon a law-abiding majority.

[nitrogen]

How so? And couldn't we make crime less profitable than not-crime by making not-crime more profitable and more accessible, instead of ruining the lives of the unlucky few who get caught?

[rayiner]

The majority of people are happy living within accepted social norms. But there's 5% at each end of the Bell curve. At one end of the Bell curve, those 5% push social norms forward and eliminate things like slavery and segregation. At the other end of the Bell curve, those 5% flout social norms to their own advantage, and only violent reprisal keeps them at bay.

[nitrogen]

Can we (society) come up with some way other than violence to shift the bottom 5% into the acceptable range?

[mindcrime]

So you don't think criminals should have to reimburse their victims, or make some appropriate restitution? Just lock 'em in cells and make them suffer until they've paid their dues, or maybe put them on a chain gang? Gotcha.

I don't want anything to do with it. Locking people in cells, forced labor, etc. are for the (few) people who are simply so dangerous that they can't roam the world without representing an imminent threat to others.

[SilasX]

So, law-breaking should be profitable. Got it.

[mindcrime]

It already is. It probably always will be. So we can ignore reality and live in some fantasy-land where everything is perfect and none suffer and everybody walks on gilded streets and has a pony... or we can accept reality for what it is. But if attempting to build this polly-anna'ish dream world involves violating the fundamental essence of what justice and equality under the law mean, then I - for one - want no part of it.