[ianbishop]

Ironically, the 'secret' is one that everyone but the American government and the majority of the American population are aware of.

A NY Times article [http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/googles-immigration...] published not too long ago outlined how much Google was spending on H-1B visas and their demand for the cap to be raised. If you read the comments or the backlash which followed, it made you very aware how the American public is still convinced immigrants are 'stealing their jobs'.

[ardit33]

To back your thing:

My current company was closing down. So I started looking for a new job, and I was really worried as an H-1B that I am, companies are really reluctant to hire in this environment, b/c of the huge amount of paper work, and cost required for them to eventually sponsor me.

Within two weeks I got 3 job offers, and getting one more next week (they are doing background checks), with a lot of money. I mean a lot more than I thought I could make. What it shows me, that there is a real demand for highly skilled engineers, even in a downturn, and a lot of "i am an American, I can't find a job lets send the h-1bs home", are probably voices from people that have no talent, or desire to work.

This is truly work Americans can't do, as I am not cheap at all, actually very expensive, money and paperwork wise.

The secret in the Silicon Valley is that 80% of the code is produced only by 20% of the engineers. If I have my own company, (or you had your own), I'd want to hire from that 20% pool, no matter what their race, ethnicity, or immigration status they are. Unfortunately, you have people on the 80% pool, that scream (or wishfully thinking) that if immigrants weren't here, there would be able to command higher salaries, and find job easily.

It is often much easier to blame others, instead of just looking in the mirror.

[avner]

Good post. The other end of the spectrum: I used to write code for autonomous UAVs back home (commercial and military). After completing my second degree in the US, I made it through to 90% of the interviews and selection process at the top firms that play in such applied heuristics. At that point I didn't think I was wasting my time, given my background and experience.

In the end, I was apologized to almost everywhere as they couldn't offer me a position because of my immigration status and there were existing federal restrictions limiting their hiring of foreign workers. Nonetheless, almost all those companies still e-mail me today asking whether I would take a position at their operations in my home country because there just aren't that many good people who do this kind of shit in the US.

Why, I ask? Later, I got multiple offers from companies back home who were willing to pay 5 times as much and were either in direct competition to the folks in the U.S. or were selling them patented technologies that cost billions in licenses every year.

[Retric]

I think the simple solution to the H1B program is to have companies biding on slots. When people see companies are willing to pay 10-20k+/year extra to higher the highest levels of talent few are going to complain.

Also, I once worked for a body shop which cared little for talent and just wanted people to fill the spots as cheaply as possible. And unlike at that paperwork this would stop them for using H1B's.

[noaharc]

Bidding is often not a bad idea, as it does help to uncover the "true" value. But it's not the solution to the H1B program. That solution is simply to let any and every qualified person into the country -- indeed court their attention and residence. Anything else is selfish, chauvinist myopia.

[Locke1689]

Where you looking for positions at military contractors or directly DoD work? If so, you should know that there are very strict laws on who can work in US military (and government) positions. Very often, you must be a US citizen to gain even lower level employment in sensitive military contracts. I know for a fact that not only do you have to have to be a natural American citizen (born in the United States), but you also have to have lived abroad only temporarily for a certain amount of time and lived consecutively in the US (for 10 years, I think?) to be eligible to earn the highest security clearances. Government work will probably remain the domain of US citizens, as very often its viewed as a national security risk otherwise.

[DenisM]

Reminds me of a story of a Chinese-born scientist who was harrased by FBI for being possibly a communist. He got fed up with that and left the US to China, where he ended up playing key role in Chinese rocket program. You're in good company.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/20719/chinese_rocket_scie...

[jagjit]

I have heard this from a lot of H1 engineers - especially ones with a couple of years of experience. I myself was one but never bought this reasoning - though cannot deny there may be some truth in it. My own understanding is that mostly this applies to startup companies: 1) They generally have a harder time recruiting so supply/demand forces them to pay higher generally. 2) Their spending extra on the work visa or residency processing is a way to buy insurance against the employee leaving any time soon(till the green-card is processed which is a period of 2yrs-infinity) 3) They generally prefer hiring recent graduates (and there are only so many US citizen graduates every year). Why they do so? Again I think because of a few reasons (though cannot deny there may not be any truth in these): a) Recent graduates are cheaper and are hungrier and a lot of the work does not need specialized phds but good computer science fundamentals. b) Freshly minted MS may not necessarily be better engineers/programmers but are more in tune with the latest tools in fashion which startups tend to use.

[DannoHung]

I've worked with good engineers on H1-B's and bad engineers on H1-B's. Just because you're coming from somewhere else doesn't make you any better. It just means you came from somewhere else. And honestly, I don't think the ratio is all that much better.

The thing that I do not like about H1-B's regardless is that they are a temporary invitation (at least on Wall Street). I would much rather the system be set up as a funnel towards getting smart people into this country so that they could become citizens.

Finally, a pet peeve: When I was in High School and College, the importance of clarity in written communication was drilled into my skull like a maddened dentist attacking the mother of all cavities. If you're out there, and you're reading this, and English isn't your first language (or if it is and you just suck at it): Please, please, please spend more time when creating written communications of a technical nature. An absent punctuation mark, a poorly chosen phrasing, a confusing grammar structure can all pervert the original meaning of what you've written and slow work down, or at worst, cause something to be done incorrectly.

[cglee]

I don't think most Americans have a problem with truly bright engineers. I think the problem is when large corporations abuse the system to keep wages down.

Plus, yes the complaining will always come from the lower 80%; the top 20% usually have a way to solve their problems - that's the benefit of being on top.

[maggie]

The 'abuse to keep the wages down' is worked into the H1-B system. Reform is needed, but the spirit behind the program is valid.

Under the H1-B program, once you enter a certain stage of Department of Labor processing, you cannot get a promotion. Promotiotions = raises. Either the H1-B worker takes upon much more responsibility than they are being paid for, and therefore floors down the price the employers are willing to pay for an equiv. worker, OR they get stuck in a dead-end job and are first to get axed.

Ideally, this processing would take only a year or two. Thus, the demand of not changing the employee's title wouldn't be /so/ ridiculous (only a little ridiculous). However, in these post 9/11 delayed processing days, it ends up taking 3-4 years (especially if you're Chinese or Indian--the H1B Program has 'country of origin'-quotas (NOT citizenship, ORIGIN.))

[kingkongrevenge]

The H1B program is idiotic. Immigration laws just need to be reformed. We need to stop importing nearly a million third world peasant laborers a year and start easily allowing in smart people who already speak English.

[anigbrowl]

Mrs Browl, who qualified as a laser engineer and now runs operations at a thriving information management company, is the offspring of two third world peasant laborers who arrived here when she was 3. As it happens, I'm European, have an IQ of 142 and speak perfect English, but I'm the less economically productive one.

I do think immigration laws need to be reformed and the US should lead in the redefinition of labor as a commodity and work towards open borders, which I believe will eventually do more to improve global productivity and security than any number of tariffs and background checks. However, I hope the people in charge do not share your dismissive attitude towards those who are so foolish as to get born in the wrong place.

[defen]

You're cherry-picking one example. The fact remains that the vast majority of Hispanics do not even complete college, even after the third or fourth generation as Americans. You have to put aside your personal prejudice and look at the bigger picture.

[maggie]

I have a question for you. When applying for your new jobs as an H1-B, are you required to start the H1-B process all over again?

[ardit33]

no, as I already have an H-1B. But, as an H-1b holder I am only authorized to work with one company at a time (the sponsor of the visa).

For me to start working in a new company I need: 1. A H-1B visa transfer. Cost about 2,5k - 3k on fees and lawyer work. 2. Eventual green card sponsorship, as my current max allowed time will eventually expire in a couple of years. That's about 10k of lawyer/paperwork costs.

For an employer, to pay you really well, and put up the costs, you can't be only 10%-20% better than the average american programmer, you have to be a magnitude better.

Fortunately, in engineering there is a huge variance in skills (up to 10 times), and good employers recognize this.

[Vivekpuri]

Ardit33, your information is not correct. There is nothing like H1 transfer. Every time you switch employer, you have to apply for H1 visa. This also means you can hold as many h1 visas as you can get. But you can work for only one employer at any given point of time.

[0xdeadbeef]

You are correct in that one does not transfer the H1B, one gets a new one. However, if you already hold H1B status then you are generally not subject to the H1B cap. In those times when the cap has been reach this means that you do not need to wait until October 1st to start your new job.

[ardit33]

"Application Type: I129, PETITION FOR A NONIMMIGRANT WORKER" -- Yes you are right. I guess, technically is called a petition for a non immigrant worker, and while it is not a 'transfer' per se, it is not a filing of a brand new h-1b either (that is a slightly different procedure) as you have to be part of the cap.

[zaidf]

Google may be on the BEST end of the spectrum.

On the other end, there are thousands of companies that use H1B as an excuse to get cheap labor. These companies advertise for jobs as required by law and dump the resumes they get so they can claim there is no available talent within U.S. These are not conspiracy theories but rather well established practices.

[kareemm]

True. There is a lot of irony to making it difficult for motivated immigrants to work in the US. When I started a company in the US by partnering with an American - which was the only way I could legally work for my company, despite it being perfectly legal for a foreigner to incorporate in the US - we ended up providing salaried jobs and benefits for 4 Americans, along with part-time wages for 20 or 30 more people. And this company is a lightly-funded, lean, 2y old biz.

Imagine what allowing, say, 10k foreigners in to start companies would do to the long-term health of the country?

http://www.paulgraham.com/foundervisa.html