[AndyJ1972]

My other half said to me one day early in our relationship, as I was facing brancrupcy due largely to my business partner....

"I don't care if we live in a tent if I'm with you."

I recounted that line to her when I proposed years later.

[cylinder]

Words are cheap. People, things, circumstances, beliefs, ideals all change with time.

[intenex]

Wow, that wasn't the most cynical thing I've ever heard at all.

[btilly]

Wow, you consider that cynical? I guess you don't have much experience of life. I've probably got a lot more, and what you found cynical, I found obvious.

After over 20 years of marriage, I have found that every few years I realize that I'm married to a different person than I was. So is she. Some changes are for the better, some for the worse. In both of us. But I know that if I could talk to myself on my wedding day and honestly describe to that young man what his future would hold, he'd have never believed it possible.

Here are some tips for you. If you get married, planning on remaining the same people, you're setting yourself up for your divorce after the discrepancy between who you are and who you pretend to be gets too large. If you get married, planning on holding to an ideal of marriage that you see written for someone in a book, well, there is a reason that evangelical Christians have a significantly higher divorce rate than atheists. If you get married and depend on belonging to a community/belief system that makes divorce not an option, you will create a hell for yourself on Earth - as several ex-Catholics of my acquaintance would be happy to testify. (I know plenty of current Catholics who would privately agree.)

The only way that I know of to be married a long time, and be happy, is if you both work on growing together, and changing in the same direction. You have to take the possibility of failure seriously to even have a chance of success. And even so, it is only a chance. You don't always grow together. Some changes simply can't be reconciled. You think this impossible? Here is a random example. I know multiple people whose spouses realized that they were gay after marriages lasting over a decade. You tell me how a marriage can survive that. I can't, because the ones I know about didn't.

You probably think that I am saying something horribly hateful. That's fair. I remember being outraged after 5 years of marriage when my older sister commented, "You're still in the easy part." But she was right, and I was wrong. I was, I just didn't know it.

Seriously, unless you've been married more than 10 years, I don't think that you can possibly have enough experience to base an opinion of your own on. If you make it to 20 years, I dare you to tell me that I am wrong. If you can accept my dare at that point with a straight face, I would be willing to bet money that you are living in denial. (I've watched people go through that as well. It is not a nice thing to watch the illusions that someone's life is based on crumble...)

Why is this? It is because ten years together is not simply one year repeated ten times. It is ten times the accumulated differences, experienced for ten times as long. That's 100 times as hard.

[Xcelerate]

You've made an interesting post; however, I would like to add some of my own insight, which could help explain why I made my original post about being bothered that his wife left him.

My parents were happily married for 17 years before my mother passed away from cancer. They had an essentially perfect, idealistic marriage. They never argued, they retained their same values/morals from the day they were married, and they were truly each other's best friend. I could tell both of them enjoyed each other's company immensely and unwaveringly. Maybe their personalities changed a little over time, but all of their important core values remained constant.

Is this a common occurrence? Not at all. I'm sure we can both agree on that. But from my perspective, as someone who grew up witnessing this kind of marriage, the fact that I know such a thing is possible means I would try hard to replicate it for my own family.

[btilly]

If your parents were married for 17 years before your mother died, how old were you? How aware were you of what they had been like earlier? What had changed? In short, how good a position were you to judge?

I say this because I know for a fact that my 9 year old son's view of my marriage and my view of the same thing are virtually unrelated. He sees, but he cannot understand. Nor does he have any idea what changes came before he was 5.

Here is perspective. My aunt and uncle were married nearly 60 years. They had one of the best marriages that I am aware of. Most of their children were unable to recognize the constant work in the face of ongoing changes that caused that until after they were married adults themselves.

Do you really know your parents' marriage as well as you think?

[kamaal]

A very good point.

My father always tells I will be able to understand my mom far better than he did. And my sister will be able to understand him far better than my mom did.

This happens for one simple reason. Kids think their parents marriage is perfect, because they are born into that assumption as that is all they see.

[Xcelerate]

I was eleven when she died. I'm 23 now, however, speaking to my father about their marriage essentially confirms my view.

[cylinder]

It's cynical to say that people change? This is one of the most fundamental aspects of being human. If you prefer to live in a cocoon don't expect HN comments to comply with your worldview.

[gshubert17]

Mary Doria Russell put it memorably (for me) in this quote,

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/417319-we-all-make-vows-jimm...

It's longer, but here's one part. The speaker is explaining being married 4 times to 4 different men (each named George--the "same" person).

"Every ten years or so, George and I have faced the fact that we have changed and we've had to decide if it makes sense to create a new marriage between these two new people. . . . Which is why vows are such a tricky business. Because nothing stays the same forever."

[sliverstorm]

Maybe it's cynical to say that words are cheap, but do you contest it is not true?

[Xcelerate]

That's great to hear!