[btilly]

Nicotine, on the other hand, is harmful in its own right. It is less damaging to consume pure nicotine without the other harmful effects of smoking, but it is certainly a toxic substance, in the medical sense.

Citation needed.

Before responding, you might want to read http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine.

[chimeracoder]

> Before responding, you might want to read http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine.

I can assure that this is a topic on which I have done far more research in my lifetime than that blog post. I'm not trying to be snarky; I'm just emphasizing that I have a lot more knowledge on this topic than I can reasonably compress into a 124-word HN post (like my original comment).

> Citation needed.

The post that you yourself link is a citation for my statement. Notice that I worded my post carefully - I did not say that nicotine has only harmful effects, or even that it has no positive effects.

All I stated is that it is a toxic substance in the medical sense - a statement which could also apply to the drugs used in chemotherapy. Therefore, it is correct to say "we can be fairly certain that they are least somewhat harmful."

I make no claim about the situations under which any alleged benefits outweigh the the toxic effects, simply that said toxic effects exist.

[gwern]

> I can assure that this is a topic on which I have done far more research in my lifetime than that blog post. I'm not trying to be snarky; I'm just emphasizing that I have a lot more knowledge on this topic than I can reasonably compress into a 124-word HN post (like my original comment).

Then I would appreciate your links to the studies of the harmful effects of nicotine alone that I have somehow failed to find.

> I make no claim about the situations under which any alleged benefits outweigh the the toxic effects, simply that said toxic effects exist.

So your confident assertions are merely technically correct, since everything has toxic effects under some situations such as high enough doses. But that's OK, since technically correct is the best kind of correct, as any geek knows!

[ams6110]

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/EmergencyResponseCard_297500...

At one time, nicotine was used in the United States as an insecticide ... Nicotine affects the nervous system and the heart. Exposure to relatively small amounts can rapidly be fatal.

[driverdan]

Like anything the dose makes the poison. The amount of nicotine used in ecigs or tobacco products is well below the amount needed to cause the effects described here.

[goatsecx]

True, you can die from overdosing on carrot juice.

[gwern]

Good thing I'm not an insect and people generally avoid taking anywhere near the LD-50 of 50mg or so (depending on bodyweight & tolerance etc).

[scardine]

Even pure water can be harmful. A few years ago a couple guys ended up in coma at a nearby Buddhist temple after a "cleanup weekend" where they were fasting and drinking lots of water (this water OD condition is called hyponatremia). Of course nicotine is more dangerous than water, yet I can't recall a death by overdose of it.

[gwern]

> Of course nicotine is more dangerous than water, yet I can't recall a death by overdose of it.

There actually are some cases if you go looking. Nicotine oil was famously used as a poisoner's tool for a while, prompting some of the early toxicology screens, but these days, most of the cases are accidental. I recall reading about an Israeli case, IIRC, where a child drank some of the e-cig liquid its father hadn't put up high enough.